Today In Silver

The Perth Mint ships silver in lots of 20t from London in containers, a weight limit not volume limit. Assuming it is not different for anyone else, then a sea container of silver = 20t. Not sure how much of a wall that makes. Anyway, good news for us as we have unrelenting demand for 1kg silver coins from Europe so doesn’t sound like any problem getting raw silver.

SilverX you make me laugh with your commentary. For someone who thinks they know so much about the silver market, you simple are clueless at times. Stating a JP Morgan advisor advising a Japan client on scrape silver supply. I mean come on JP Morgan is the biggest manipulator/criminals in the silver market. My god thats like telling Enron to head the energy department and make comments on gas and oil supplies. Do you not have any self respect on you own blogg to bring crooks into the conversations. You are losing creditability fast here. Oh enjoy your Easter sunday.

Bron: Ag has a density of about 10 times of water (g/cm²). Thus 20t (assumed metric) has a volume of about 2m³ or 70ft³. Assuming a 20ft ISO container its storage is mostly empty. Only 6% of its volume is used by the silver - not much of a wall. 200t/6.5Mio Oz Ag could make the impression of a small wall and would be worth 83Mio $. How much silver is the Perth Mint supposed to receive? So many containers get lost …

Note, that 20t Ag are about 645000 Oz. A number of this size often appears as influx to or withdrawal from the COMEX warehouses probably meaning that the silver is shipped in containers.

@Silver
I suppose you’re basing your accusations towards JPM on Ted Butler’s oft-debunked “arguments”? Is is better to bury your head in the sand and extrapolate your already-determined conclusions on misinterpreted data or listen to market participants, warts and all?

Once you go down the conspiracy path, credibility is a lost cause.

Skunky…..SILVER was quoting TOM, but it was no TOM’s QUOTE….it was PAUL WALKER. Regardless….this IDEA that those who BELIEVE in ALTERNATIVE VIEWS who are LABELED, CONSPIRACY THEORISTS is just another way of being CLOSED MINDED.

On the MAINSTREAM MEDIA we hear that the so called “STRESS TEST” has been done and will show that the 19 banks will be OKAY. Well the WILLIAM BLACK ex regulator of the SAVINGS and LOAN said these BANKS like JP MORGAN and GOLDMAN are corrupt to the CORE and the STRESS TEST is a SHAM. Today…the FDIC came out with the same CONCLUSION.

If you look at the OCC REPORT Q4, the DERIVATIVES DATA makes JP MORGAN the KING TOILET right next to GOLDMAN SACHS. These banks are BANKRUPT, CORRUPT to the CORE. If you think this is a CONSPIRACY…well then…maybe your FACTS are being BRAINWASHED by the CORPORTATE MEDIA.

Guys,
There is a new article by the Professor. He integrated his recent papers in this one. I think it is paramount to understand all its implications.
I believe one of them is the separation of metals from their paper instruments. You can call them manipulations, shams or whatever but it is part of the system which you can whine about or profit from them if well understood. This may help:
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1239584400.php

The problem with the non-conspiracy/manipulation believes. How does one explain the fact that the world’s silver inventory has been depleted to such lows levels over the past 20-30 yrs. That we are basically consuming all we mine and recycle, yet the price has gone basically nowhere. This while all other metals have hit all time highs in the last few years. Currently there are about 1-1.5 billion ounces of above ground silver in ETF’s, comex, governments, large and small investors. Which will likely stay there unless substantially higher price come about. Now gold has about 5 billion ounces above ground currently, which gives you a ratio of 5:1 almost gold to silver. Yet the paper price of silver to gold is about 71:1, please explain that math. The ratio of silver to gold in the earth is about 15:1, even the comex inventory is about 15:1 ratio silver to gold. So non-believes what was the question silver is not manipulated. The fundamentals simple don’t support a non-manipulated position or theory. Basically people who don’t believe in conspiracy or manipulation are either stupid or can’t read data. Just think if the US use up all its oil in inventory, corn or soybeans and consume just about every gallon of oil or bushel of corn or soybeans in a given year. What do you think the price might be. The US has used up all its silver bullion in government stockpiles and has to go on the open market to buy bullion for its silver eagles, as do other governments who issue coins. Canada is a example of that with ther announcement this week. To buy $100,000,000 of physical gold and silver. Yet the price again over the past 20 years has done basically nothing. People can state all the mining projects or projection numbers by publicly traded companies. All the so called recycled silver coming to market. Industrial demand dropping off because of the worldwide meltdown. The bottomline is we are are consuming/investing in every once of silver almost which is brought to market. Now when silver inventories move up to 5 billion ounces to match gold’s above ground inventories. Or gold drops down to $180 to make the ratio 15:1, or silver moves up to $58 to make the ratio. I believe the non-conspiracy/manipulation anal-lysts should stop making themselves look stupid and keep quite. The factual fundamentals don’t support any or all of there arguments period.

@Silver’
There are much rarer elements than gold or silver. There are some can only be made artificially. Does this fact make them more expensive? No, as long as there is less demand for them. Even demand for precious metals is not homogeneous by time and space reflected by varying prices thus taken advantage by arbitrage. How could you expect that their derivatives are priced identically. Prices are very (absolute) subjective matters. If these prices are accepted broadly they are the prices. Yea, they may be right by might but weren’t they ever?
As long as these metals are not considered money only but by a few initiated the demand for them will be low. Clearly your price scale is different than that of the masses. You can whine about that but why should we. Take advantage of it! Soon the masses will catch up and the easy picking is over.
Right now, the deflationary powers of (fiat) money prices everything (besides the legal tender laws are still valid and enforced). Who need industrial silver if sulfuric acid is not in demand. That latter is much more scary.
Be assured, awakening of the masses will be coming but by then it is too late to profit.

Oy vey. I stirred up a hornet’s nest, didn’t I?

@Silver - I read a lot of data on silver from people who make a living interpreting that data. I purchase CPM’s Silver Survey (and gold and platinum ones too). Your arguments about ratios and above-ground stocks are simply nonsense. They looks good because they have numbers, but you’re just making stuff up, as Andras above has pointed out.

@SRSRocco - be careful about having too open a mind. Your brains might fall out. I’m happy to believe something supported by accurate data, not speculation and conjecture. The only person who interprets the data the way you do is Ted Butler, and Tom/SilverAx has done the heavy lifting of debunking his arguments about JPM and the COT report. I won’t bother to try to add to his work.

And one more point if I may make it - if there’s a conspiracy to hold down the price of silver, they’re not doing a very good job. And trust me, no one at JPM is sitting around in some secret room with the Silver Illuminati figuring out how to screw with Ted Butler. Your theories belie a fundamental misunderstanding of how markets are organized and operate.

Skunky, as I stated previously the fundamentals and data do not support your position. Keep barking up that non-manipulated tree, because the physical market is getting away from the manipulated paper markets.
http://www.hsn.com/cnt/hsntv/prod_review/default.aspx?date=04/12/2009&btime=19&etime=20&nvsrc=tds&srp=false&cm_re=LN*productreview*na Over 600 bars sold in about a half in hour. If the retail market/wholesale market starts to use this avenue for distribution. They won’t be able to mine the silver fast enough.

@Silver

I’m not disagreeing that silver is cheap, but you have yet to provide any data that support manipulation. I’m skeptical, since Ted Butler told me 8 years ago that silver would be at 100 by now, based on the data.

Dr. Copper and Rev. Platinum are on fire, so everyone can relax and start buying Uncle Aubert and Aunt Aggie like there’s no tomorrow. When time meets price, you know the rest of the story.

Kipling….don’t forget SILVER….it’s up $.50 premarket.

Skunky…..I wasn’t quoting TED BUTLER…and furthermore…I was talking about the STRESS TEST with the BANKS…how you paralleled that with TED BUTLER is beyond me. What I was bringing up is the NOTION that ALL CONSPIRACY THEORIST are WACKO. I disagree. Also…those who believe the CORPORATE MEDIA is putting out UNBAISED NEWS might need to get a MRI and see if their BRAIN is still working.

We know by reading many of the good INVESTIGATIVE REPORTERS on the DEEP CAPTURE BLOG that CNBC is full of MOLES like that LUNATIC JIM CRAMER, who are part of a MANIPULATION RING including NAKED SHORT SELLING. If you want REAL FACTS…go to their BLOG and read up.

All you have to do is realize the LARGE BANKS are being FED TAX PAYER MONEY to bailout DEEP POCKETS…basically PRIVATIZED PROFITS with SOCIALIZED LOSSES. The system is ROTTEN to the CORE. So if you think there is only FRAUD taking place in DERIAVTIVES, CDS, MBS, CDOS and etc and not in GOLD and SILVER…..then I would state…YOU MAY NEED To get an MRI on ones BRAIN.

Guys,
Nobody denies manipulations. Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely! As a rule, power begets manipulations.
Please read the Professor’s last article. Address above.
It looks everyone still expect fast hyperinflation and base his expectation on that. While admittedly this will be the end, the road to hell is much more complicated. Here is another article from John Mauldin, a friedmanite.
http://news.goldseek.com/MillenniumWaveAdvisors/1239548400.php
It supports Fekete by stating that S&P earning and thus P/E turned negative first time since WWII.
History shows the same deflationary powers in effect. During postwar Hungarian inflation, which I can proudly say still holds the world record though Zimbabwe came close, the outstanding fiat’s (and the economy’s) worth/valuation was less than a $1 Million from multibillion dollar just 18 months before. Weimar was similar. Argentine, France, Italy, Japan all suffered the same devaluation although to a less extent as their (fiat) inflations were less severe.
Deflation is upon us. Now just servicing the debt is too much. Consider the ~$13T stimulus from this standpoint! While everyone expect severe inflation evidenced by huge price jumps of gold at every stimulus announcement the way is always back where it was or below. As long as the $ is accepted as money everything goes down even precious metals. While the $ will be the last to be destroyed the PM-s will be the first to move out of the curse. Watch out for the price then.
In summary it is not (just) manipulations that is driving down the PM-s. Of course the initiated buys the real thing while the speculative paper follows the rest down. However, the volume of the first is negligible to the second thus the “strange” valuation.
As far as I know Tom has never suggested long term investments in paper. He uses them only for speculation while advocating at least 10-20% real PM-s. This strategy very well aligns with what seems to be happening. It is also in stark contrast to mainstream and goldbug strategies which suffered huge losses recently. It is really hard to navigate these times. What is the measure of being right if not success?

Andras…..I agree with your POST. I read Fekete’s last article….and yes I think we will see more DEFLATION. But here’s the KICKER…..back in the 1930’s the USA was AWASH in STUFF. We had BILLIONS of BARRELS of OIL, MINERALS, GOOD FARMLAND, LUMBER and etc. The one thing that FEKETE and others might be missing in their DEFLATION MODEL is the UMBILICAL CORD that the USA has with FOREIGN COUNTRIES.

Umbilical Cord….means 11-12 million barrels of oil imported daily, consumer goods and etc.

As you mentioned, there is the SHORT TERM MENTALITY in PAPER ASSETS, like TREASURIES and etc. We have to remember….we cannot AFFORD the OIL and IMPORTS that have been LOOTED from the rest of the world by EXPORTING FINANCIAL HOCUS POCUS. Yes…this is a DEFLATIONARY EVENT we are facing. But when the UNITED STATES can no longer SHIP DOLLARS for OIL and GOODS…then we will have severe SHORTAGES. How long this takes….who knows.

Fekete did mention the word “DISINTEGRATION” of WESTERN CIVILIZATION. JIM WILLIE and I agree with this assessment. Now…the 64 QUADRILLION DOLLAR QUESTION is where do you put your WEALTH…not MONEY….WEALTH??

The BOND SPECULATION may continue as people look to JAPAN and their QE example of the early 2000. But if you look at JAPAN, you will notice that after their QE (Quantitative Easing), their stock market went up about 20%….but it fell another 48% afterwards. Check out Brian Pretti’s article and charts on this (japan QE result on the Nikkei is at the bottom of article.)

http://www.financialsense.com/Market/wrapup.htm

Japan had a SURPLUS ECONOMY…they had CONSUMER SAVINGS…they started QE in a STRONG POSITION…and they are still STUCK IN DEFLATION. Yes, as MARTIN WEISS stated in his last WEB CONFERENCE…there will be a GLOBAL COLLAPSE in GDP. This indeed is DEFLATIONARY….but do not forget….the United States has been LOOTING the world for DECADES.

Again….at some point in time….IMPORTS to the USA will COLLAPSE as no one wants PAPER for REAL GOODS or ENERGY. There might be DEFLATION in CHINA as they are the USA of the 1930’s (and others)….but we will have INFLATION when GOODS and ENERGY SHORTAGES hit.

@SRSrocco
Rocco, my man. Aunt Aggie is silver in my book. It broke out as I was typing, just call me Mr. Market.

Kipling….LOL….yeah I got AUNT AGGIE right after I hit…SUBMIT COMMENT. NICE day for REAL THINGS…..not so nice for PAPER.

Gresham’s law: Bad money drives out good
so who needs manipu-vention ?

from Feketes Critique of the Quantity Theory of Money

“In the actual case there are other important forces at play, which are induced by the Fed’s open market purchases. We have to take into account bond speculation, a permanent fixture on the monetary firmament since 1971 when the U.S. government defaulted on its gold obligations…”

“Even if we assume that they have no inside information (which is a rather naïve assumption), the speculators can easily front-run the Fed’s open market purchases.”

Does anyone else find Fekete’s “bond-speculation-will-continue-forever” thesis a little absurd? In his mind, every single treasury buyer is a short-term oriented trader trying to front-run the Fed to make “risk-free profits”. In reality, many foreign buyers are interested in making long-term strategic investments. Take China for example. Sure, they don’t want to rock the boat too much, since they are an export-dependent economy, but they can see the writing on the wall for the dollar. Instead of buying 10 and 30 year treasuries, they have been investing their money in domestic infrastructure projects and buying short-term treasury bills. The fact is, the real rate of return on treasuries is already negative and bondholders realize this. The treasury market is no more “risk-free” than the housing bubble or the tech bubble.

Jeff S…..Agreed. DISINTEGRATION might take place at a much more rapid pace than expected. Look at the USSR for instance. I see the next 6-18 months much worse than TALKING HEADS and ANAL-LISTS forecast.

As for BOND SPECULATION FOREVER…..I think the WESTERN PAPER LOOTING of FOREIGN PHYSICAL ECONOMIES is coming to an END.

@SRSRocco

You haven’t given me anything but BIG CAPITAL LETTERS as evidence of a massive conspiracy to hold down silver. There’s a prima facie case to be made for this happening with gold (as central banks and the IMF are whales in the market), but that’s not what we’re talking about here. I don’t think that all conspiracy theorists are wacko, just Ted Butler, for the reasons previously enunciated.

Your naked short selling arguments also ring hollow. By definition (and perhaps by design) they cannot be substantiated, since naked short selling is unreported short selling. I agree with you about CNBC, Cramer, etc. They are horrible prostitutes. But what bearing does this have on silver? Hell, even Cramer thinks PAAS is a good buy here.

SRS,
While I have agree that there are kickers on the way I’ll have a few points of yours to argue with:
1) As long as the dollar is accepted as money there will be deflation. Foreign countries need more the US than ever. The US dollar is the last “loincloth” before their fiat is exposed as minuscule and worthless.
2) Since I agree with Mises’ “without markets there is no economy” what ensues in lack of markets is can not be predicted. It is chaos or as you call it disintegration. Money has no use there. That is the jungle. If we got there nothing would save you not even your bunker or Galt’s Gulch.
If we can still count on markets, in a market economy there is no shortages. There is always an equilibrium between demand and supply. If you have no supply you will trim back your demand. Money is just the reflection of supply through purchasing power. If you have to spend it on servicing your debt little be left on anything else. Bankruptcy is not an option as you loose all your access even to that little. You are enslaved, exactly as Jefferson has warned.
3) The US is living on credit, literally and metaphorically. The US was the twentieth century powerhouse and the world still remembers. Her economy is still 25% of the globe’s. And it can potentially be better again after a financial makeover. That is another question if she is primed for that ideologically? She also did her deeds through financial colonialism. No conqueror did this before not even the Brittish. It is much harder to recognize let alone beat. And don’t forget the US military if the former did not work! Even without any change in course this alone can prolonge the “trust” of the world (until a significant? military defeat). ADDITIONALLY SHE HOLDS THE LARGEST GOLD RESERVES!!
4) China is not the US of the thirties. Although she has money she has no respect for human rights. There is no tradition for that whatsoever. Without that there is no Capitalism. She will be another empire on quicksand. Russia was considered similar in the fifties and sixties.
5) Japan is not the perfect example what will happen to the US as they have had the US behind them. There is nothing behind the US.

Back to your question “where to put my wealth?”. If I had that (as I can’t call my reserves that) I would speculate to multiply my “wealth” and hope that the powers that be come to there senses and reintroduce the gold standard. If that came true I (and I believe most of us) have to go back to work as speculations wouldn’t compete with my creative work any longer.
That is the beauty of the gold standard we have to focus on wealth generation not robbing each other.

@SRSrocco

I agree that the Western economies’ days of trading paper promises (which they have no intent of ever redeeming) for real goods is coming to an end. The argument that the rest of the world needs the U.S. is a joke. The productive economies need us like a slave needs a slavemaster to provide food. Obviously the “slave” would be better off keeping the fruit of his own work, rather than giving it to the master who will give back just enough crumbs to keep him alive.

I realize that the U.S. dollar is the world’s reserve currency, which has given us a unique ability to run up giant debts. But ultimately, the laws of nature apply to us just like everyone else. The debtor that keeps going further into debt doesn’t see his credit rating improve. Likewise a government that goes deeper into debt won’t have a strengthening currency. It really is that simple. I’m kind of surprised that Fekete is buying into the greater fool theory.

Skunky I don’t mean to be rude, but please do your own research and don’t rely on others. In any event non-manipulated believes here is some information you can spin your web on. Two US banks hold 96% of the short side position on the comex. Just think the hunt brothers held 10% of one side of the trade back in 1980 and they were deemed manipulative. You would think the government would start up a regulatory agency to look out for these problems.
http://www.stockhouse.com/Columnists/2009/April/13/Accumulate-silver-soon–Got-Gold-Report

Rocco’s got it right, this time, and I’ll tell you why. Last June I bought JM silver 100s at RBC, a London Bullion Bank, and paid about a buck over spot,in the 18s CDN as against 17 and change spot at the time. Imagine my surprise when I went in today and found they wanted 21.00!!Note the double exclamation for added effect. Spot CDN silver is in the mid 15s. WHF? Gold kilos were $1121.41 oz which is cheap! In other words, the cash gold/silver ratio is 53.4. I am officially issuing a silver tsunami warning alert.

Holy cow! Another kick butt day in base metal equities. And this while crude and the dollar were showing weakness.
A guy could make bacon for his whole year in ONE DAY if he knew what he was doing in that sector. Seems to me this bounceback makes the future outlook for PMs even brighter…especially silver.

Skunky…..about the NAKED SHORT SELLING,the MOB and CRIME SYNDICATES, you need to spend some time reading the DEEP CAPTURE WEBSITE with Patrick Byrne (Overstock.com), Martin Mitchell, and Judd Bagley. These fellas have been followed, and even beaten up by some shady fellas who more than likely are connected to the MOB via NAKED SHORT SELLING OPERATIONS. If you don’t realize the MOB is involved in HUGE NAKED SHORT SELLING…then my friend you are being quite NAIVE. Again…you have to do the reading if you want to learn….I can’t write down in a few paragraphs what has taken me months of reading to learn. You can find the DEEP CAPTURE BLOG HERE:

http://www.deepcapture.com/

Here are a few paragraphs that might INTICE you to look further:

The hedge fund that bribed the Columbia Journalism Review is called Kingsford Capital. It has worked closely with criminals, including a thug named Spyro Contogouris. In November 2006, a couple weeks after Kingsford bribed the Columbia Journalism Review, an FBI agent arrested Spyro. This was the same FBI agent who was investigating a cabal of short sellers – SAC Capital, Kynikos Associates, the former Rocker Partners, Third Point Capital, Exis Capital — who were then working with Spyro to attack a company called Fairfax Financial.

Spyro had harassed and threatened Fairfax executives, so he was going to feature prominently in my story. The centerpiece of my story, however, was to be that cabal of short sellers, not only because the Fairfax case was quite shocking, but also because these short sellers and a few others were the primary sources to dishonest journalists (especially MarketWatch reporter Herb Greenberg and CNBC personality Jim Cramer) who were then whitewashing the naked short selling scandal. Moreover, nearly every company known to have been targeted by these short sellers had been victimized by naked short selling, with millions of shares going undelivered, often for months at a time.

Emails in my possession show that Kingsford Capital is closely connected to that cabal of short sellers. Moreover, one of Kingsford’s managers at the time, Cory Johnson, was, along with Herb Greenberg and Jim Cramer (the journalists who were going to feature most prominently in my story) a founding editor of TheStreet.com. (Johnson removed Kingsford from his online resume after I revealed the relationship in “The Story of Deep Capture.”).

For a number of years, Kingsford Capital was partnered with Manuel Asensio, who was one of the most notorious naked short sellers on the Street. Prior to his work with Kingsford, Asensio worked for First Hanover, a Mafia-affiliated brokerage whose owner later became a homeless crack addict.

I was investigating Kingsford and Asensio primarily because they appeared to be among the favorite sources of Gary Weiss, the crooked journalist who was then secretly doubling as a flak for the black box DTCC. Asensio, for example, helped Weiss write “The Mob on Wall Street,” a 1995 BusinessWeek story that was all about the Mafia’s infiltration of Wall Street stock brokerages, but which deliberately omitted reference to Mafia-connected naked short sellers, even though the brokerage that featured most prominently in the story, Hanover Sterling, was at the center of one of the biggest naked short selling fiascos in Wall Street history.
———————————-

Andras….I appreciate all the POINTS that you wrote. I believe in the END we agree on the BASICS….GOLD GOOD….FIAT BAD. But I would like to reply to a few of your points.

As for number 3) You state the US is 25% of the GLOBAL ECONOMY. This was true….but will be no longer. Do not forget, 70% of that 25% was CONSUMPTION and about 10% of that 25% was MILITARY. The US ECONOMY has been basically CONSUMPTION and MILITARY. How on FRICKEN EARTH is that VIABLE LONG TERM???? Our 25% STAKE in the GLOBAL ECONOMY will COLLAPSE as our MAIN EXPORT of FINANCIAL GARBAGE will no longer FUND CONSUMPTION or the MILITARY in the future. This indeed is what by-passes most of the ANAL-LISTS out there regurgitating that the world NEEDS THE USA. I agree with JEFF S….the world needs the UNITED STATES as much as CHINA needs more WORTHLESS US TREASURIES.

4) You say CHINA has no HUMAN RIGHTS….well, that might be true to some extent….but CHINA has many similar aspects that the US enjoyed in the 1930’s. I did not say ALL. CHINA holds the CARDS…not the USA. If CHINA stops BUYING US TREASURIES and DUMPS the rest they hold on the market (which I doubt they would do now) the USA would get the FINANCIAL ENEMA of a LIFETIME.

Again…the DISINTEGRATION is coming whether we like it or not. You can’t LOOT the REST of the WORLD for DECADES and expect them to BAIL US OUT. I FORECAST that in this decade, much of the US MILITARY will have to move back to the WESTERN HEMISPHERE and the USA will DISINTEGRATE into smaller REGIONS.

@Andras Andras, on your last paragraph, amen brother!

The terms “inflation” and “deflation” lack precision and are inadequate for proper analysis, (Mises, Human Action 1998: 419-21). Therefore Fekete’s deflationary conclusions aren’t fully convincing, since each variety of deflation (and inflation) needs to be considered separately.

For example, J. Salerno (An Austrian Taxonomy of Deflation with Applications to the US, QJAE 6.4 2003) distinguishes the following types:

1. Growth Deflation (as in high-growth competitive industries);

2. Cash-building Deflation (hoarding cash either because of uncertainty over banking and economic conditions or because of speculation on falling prices which sends the value of cash up);

3. Bank Credit Deflation (contractions in bank credit leading to price falls);

4. Policy Deflation (deflationary policies adopted by a central bank);

5. Confiscatory Deflation (caused by government theft of personal bank deposits).

Drops in industrial commodity prices are NOT generally deflationary for consumer prices:

“Most laymen and economists think of industrial commodity or wholesale prices as harbingers of the move of consumer prices, which are supposed to be “sticky” but moving in the same direction. But they are wrong. One of the most important and neglected truths of business cycle analysis is that consumer prices and capital goods or producer prices move in different directions. Specifically, in boom periods capital goods or producer prices rise relative to consumer prices, while in recessions, consumer prices rise relative to producer prices. As a result, the fact that industrial commodity prices have been falling in no sense presages a later fall in consumer prices. Quite the contrary.”
(M. Rothbard 1984. “What’s Ahead: Resurging Inflation or Sudden Deflation.” Jerome Smith’s Investment Perspectives (November).1984, p. 2).

@SRS,
-I agree with your GDP assessment. The whole GDP is a Keynesian fabrication. Worthless by itself but somewhat useful comparing its dynamics. I’m sure foreigners have their problems, too
-I think the powers that be can steer the US to financial overhaul before total disintegration. They will recognize the alternatives. If they can’t, after lynching the oldies, the new rulers will. Gold can fix this entire mess in a few months.
-China is still a command economy on the macro level. It can be shut down any time if the peasants are promised enough from the loot.
She is doing her “perestroika” this way. She may have better chances than the Russians had but they may fall harder as they went higher.

@relic,
I believe Fekete talks about valuation thus prices, even money prices as consequences of central bank policies so your number four is questioned.
The traditional expectation is that with QE comes inflation. That is what Fekete questions. I wouldn’t go that far that even Mises and Rothbard advocated “Quantitative Theory” at least in a non-linear sense. However, when the sign of the marginal productivity of debt turns negative something different starts to happen and the consequences of usual central bank policies of money pumping become counter”productive”.

Silver :
Skunky I don’t mean to be rude, but please do your own research and don’t rely on others. In any event non-manipulated believes here is some information you can spin your web on. Two US banks hold 96% of the short side position on the comex. Just think the hunt brothers held 10% of one side of the trade back in 1980 and they were deemed manipulative. You would think the government would start up a regulatory agency to look out for these problems.
http://www.stockhouse.com/Columnists/2009/April/13/Accumulate-silver-soon–Got-Gold-Report

So, if 96% of the short position is held by two banks, who owns the long side of those trades? As far as I know the reports don’t identify who is long and who is short. I will quote SilverAx’s response to Butler’s nonsense:

“As I explained earlier, the OCC reports do not indicate in which direction — short or long - that JPMorgan and other big banks hold their OTC and exchange-traded derivative positions. Instead, the OCC reports show total notionals and gross exposures. If anything, all the evidence points to bank positions being held in both directions in roughly equal proportions, which is exactly what one would expect from a dealer who is primarily intermediating (acting as a clearing party) between bids and offers from customers. Moreover, using total notionals to calculate underlying asset amounts results in double-counting.”

I don’t mean to be rude, but you have no effing idea what you’re talking about when it comes to naked short selling. Overstock.com is a prime example of the CEO spending more time worried about his stock price and not enough about his business. It’s a low-margin unprofitable internet retailer. Naked short selling may happen occasionally by criminals, but what criminal would target a company or a commodity where everyone is crying foul over naked short selling? I work in the securities markets (in compliance actually), and can tell you that naked short selling is very hard to do in the equity markets, especially these days. And it still doesn’t have anything to do with the silver market, but it’s a convenient excuse when prices don’t go up as fast and as steadily as you would like them to, since it’s a fundamentally unprovable accusation.

Skunky….your answer about Byrne and OverStock.com…is a typical regurgitated response I can hear from the BULLISH MORONS on CNBC….and I don’t need to be rude. There are many other people talking about NAKED SHORT SELLING besides Patrick Byrne and his investigative reporters. Bud Burrell, who has his own website and was on FSN in an interview….probably has a great deal more EXPERIENCE than you in securities markets.

Skunky…you are what I term as a TYPICAL WHITE COLLAR COG in the MACHINE who can’t see the FOREST FOR THE TREES. It’s not your FAULT as you can’t think OUTSIDE THE BOX. The regulator who try to inform the SEC about BERNIE MADOFF, would be a CONSPIRACY THEORIST in your BOOK. The SEC is a WORTHLESS ORGANIZATION…FRAUD is being committed on a GRAND SCALE.

Lastly…..I am LONG SILVER and GOLD. I am not a person who puts TED BUTLER high on my list…..I leave that for the likes of Antal Fekete and others. There is a great deal of MANIPULATION going on whether you want to call it NAKED SHORTING, RISK FREE PROFITS of BOND SPECULATION, BAILOUTS for the BANKER BOYS, or TRADING the BASIS in GOLD and SILVER. Even FEKETE mentions in one of his articles, that if the public realized what was going on with these large traders of PAPER SILVER….SILVER would go to $100 OVERNIGHT. Now…this was FEKETE…and not TED BUTLER.

Regardless….you and I will never see EYE to EYE on this MATTER…and that’s fine with me. THe USA is heading towards a DISINTEGRATION…what we are talking about is MEANINGLESS in the whole scheme of things.

@SRSRocco, if we’re getting into name-calling, you are what I’d call a RAVING KOOK. Especially with your use of EMPHASIS. For every Patrick Byrne, there’s Mark Cuban exposing their idiocy. A guy with a website who appears on Faux News does not qualify ass evidence of a GRAND CONSPIRACY. Markopolous presented EVIDENCE, not CONJECTURE. Just because other people believe this BS doesn’t mean it has any more evidentiary weight.

We agree on a few things, just not the reasoning on how we come to the same conclusions. Your KOOKY ARGUMENTS make the LEGITIMATE ARGUMENTS look bad. That’s my issue with it.

For the record, I am not defending the SEC, bond markets, or anything else related to large investment and commercial banks. They are all corrupt at worst and inept at best. I own my own firm, and police my own representatives. You are making the same mistakes that led us to this point, trusting people who sound like they know what they’re talking about but are simply out for themselves.

Skunky….I see my CAPS are CONTAGIOUS. A RAVING KOOK is not too bad really. A lot of thinkers OUTSIDE the BOX get called much worse. The area where we SPLIT HAIRS seems to be as to what you refer as “LEGITIMATE” compared to “KOOKY”. When EINSTEIN presented his theory of RELATIVITY in 1915, soon after there was the INFAMOUS paper labled, “THE 100 SCIENTISTS AGAINST EINSTEIN”. Einstein was asked by a reporter what he thought of the 100 scientists paper….Einstein replied, “IF they were right….only one would be needed”.

Einstein was a KOOK as he spent a great deal of time DAY DREAMING and looking at PHYSICS and SCIENCE in a most UNORTHRODOX WAY. I am not comparing myself to EINSTEIN…but to the RUBBISH that KOOKS are less LEGITIMATE that the so called ESTABLISHMENT.

Furthermore…..the ECONOMISTS and EGGHEADS in GOVT and at the FED would never invite the likes of FEKETE to a MONETARY DEBATE as they would label him as a KOOK….do you see where I am going with this?

PETER SCHIFF was labeled a KOOK and DOOM and GLOOMER by several TALKING HEADS on CNBC and FOX BUSINESS. Ben Stein comes to mind as one of the so called “LEGITIMATE SOURCES” when he told SCHIFF on CNBC in late 2007 that FINANCIALS WERE SOUND and GREAT INVESTMENTS.

Skunky…you take the position that the ESTABLISHMENT and MEDIA is offering the LEGITIMATE INFORMATION and NEWS. This indeed quite HILARIOUS when we see a DISINTEGRATION of the WESTERN CIVILZATION on the HORIZON.

Also…I said I have read other individuals in NAKED SHORT SELLING as well as other MANIPULATIONS. If I were getting into name calling….you are what I’d call a WHITE COLLAR COG-O-MATIC.

@skunky
Skunky, you’re a troll. Your “police my own representatives” is a paranoid fantasy at best. You lost the argument.

SRS this sounds like what you are talking about with the government and media talking heads. Listen to this conversation which pretty much got Dylan Ratigan fired from CNBC, hopefully it works.http://messages.finance.yahoo.com/Stocks_%28A_to_Z%29/Stocks_C/threadview?m=tm&bn=3268&tid=252232&mid=252232&tof=42&frt=2

This maybe the ticket to the interview, woow he pretty much nailed it. Fox news here we come. http://www.fedupusa.info/Dylan_Ratigan_I...

No doubt most americans get all their news and information from televised sources…scary indeed. Correspondents and guests who don’t conform to the corporate media view of reality are quickly called kooks or hacks and are rarely invited back. Seeking the truth plays second fiddle to enhancing the political access and influence of the corporations.

A breakup of the United States sounds kooky for example, but look at the states already calling out the FedGov for more autonomy. Montana and Texas to name two I’m aware of. If the Supreme Court fails to support the Constitution again, who knows what will happen.
Things sure as sh*t aren’t getting better. Disintegration of the current corrupt system is inevitable…how much time it takes is the only question that nobody can answer.

Name calling aside this is a good forum and differences of opinion should be embraced to open ones mind. The system is broke and mainstream media has the focus that it could be worse so the markets go up. If someone sleeps better thinking they know everything more power to them. I would rather be sure that I understand there is a possibility of disintegration versus being shocked by it.

The simple sniff test could be:

-Have jobs stabilized or are losses continuing?
-Are we in a good position as a nation financially?
-How long could a business operate as our gov’t has?

This board will be a very interesting place when shortages occur and other countries tell us what the media will not. Or if things continue as they have there will be “kooks” abound.

Thank you everyone for sharing your opinions and for reading.

ANYONE WITH THE GUTS or OPEN MIND….want to see just how BAD the SYSTEM has become, I CHALLENGE you to read Martin Armstrong’s most recent article called “LOOKING BEHIND THE CURTAIN”. Martin who is in presently in JAIL for not giving up his INFAMOUS “ECONOMIC PI CYCLE” theory to the “CLUB”, gives the reader a SOBERING view of what is going on in GOLDMAN SACHS and other PAST HISTORY of manipulations in SILVER and etc.

Armstrong’s PI CYCLE was able to FORECAST the TOP in GOLD at $875 on Jan 21st 1980 to the DAY.

SERIOUSLY….those who are what I term as WHITE COLLAR COG-O-MATICS…if you really want to OPEN YOUR MIND and EXPAND it with only a half an hour INVESTMENT…you just might SEE LIFE in a DIFFERENT WAY.

Again this is a OFFER for those who think THEY KNOW THE SYSTEM. You can FIND MARTIN ARMSTRONG’s April 9, 2008 article here:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14227076/Behind-the-Curtain4909

SRSrocco
“Martin who is in presently in JAIL for not giving up his INFAMOUS “ECONOMIC PI CYCLE” theory to the “CLUB”

Is this really true or is this just rampant speculation and conspiracy theory? I thought he was arrested for the operation of some type of Ponzi scheme. Can your statement be verified?

@Silver Great link Silver. He does nail it. You can really hear the anger and contempt in his voice.

John….just read the article…and you can make up your mind…HE WAS SET UP in that so called SCHEME…it was no SCHEME at all. If you just read the 19 pages…you will understand the GENIUS and HONESTY behind the MAN.

I GUARANTEE IT.

IF ANYONE READS MARTIN ARMSTRONGS ARTICLE I LINKED ABOVE….I would like to see your comments. That goes for you too TOM SZABO. Tom…if you read the ARTICLE and you can tell me FACE to FACE or BLOG to BLOG that MANIPULATION does not TAKE PLACE in these MARKETS…I will give some of my HAIR to ALAN GREENSPAN…who now only has a FEW COMB OVER HAIRS LEFT.

SRSrocco

Yes it makes for compelling reading. Kind of talks about silver alot so maybe adds some weight to Ted Butler’s arguments. I think you will have a hard job convincing Tom about any of this though.

JOHN#2 thanks for reading and your COMMENTS….if you read the end where he was put in JAIL without DEFENSE or COUNCIL, I don’t think TOM is that NAIVE or DENSE to understand what MARTIN ARMSTRONG and others like him are up against. That is…assuming TOM READS the ARTICLE OPEN MINDED.

thanks again…

SRSrocco

I have read Armstrong’s latest and sympathize with his story. The accuracy of the cycles are also compelling. Next cycle turn date is due this Sunday, after which most of the cycles of different time frames are headed down until June 2011.

Anyone care to speculate what may occur this Sunday?

I tried reading Martin Armstrong but failed, in much the same way as I tried and failed reading Clif Droke!

@Lone Ranger
The Silver Streak is leaving the station, Lone Ranger. Knowledgeable traders are frontrunning Martin Armstrong’s date. The chart is a thing of duty. All Aboard!

Is Sunday the day that Ted Butler’s prayers are answered, after all these years?

shit! you’ve exposed me as a evil minion of the vast global conspiracy to hold down the price of silver. or the price of overstock.com and other poor helpless publicly-traded corporations through various nefarious means that will never quite make any sense. weird since i own all this silver and stocks that would do great if silver went up.

I’m not a troll, but an investor in mining equities and precious metals, looking for clear reasoned arguments, not links to people whose arguments have been debunked by this very site. I’ve been accused of siding with the media and the banks somehow, and that’s clearly not what I’ve been trying to argue here.

Happy tea bag day!

@SRSRocco and let me just say for the record, thank you for giving me the first economics commentary published in prison. talk about having time to think it all through!

@skunky
Plenty of room on the bandwagon, skunky, welcome aboard. We’re all on the same liferaft. Bygones be bygones, it’s nothing but blue skies ahead. A thing of beauty or a thing of duty, it’s the long awaited sweet spot.

I have always liked Martin Armstrong’s work ever since i read in 1998 where he said the top was not in for the stock market. I felt he go a bad deal with the contempt charges & it only go worse from there. Someone had it in for him BIGTIME ! The sad part is that he probally is right about his lasted piece about GS.
The way I have always thought of the situation is like this….. Its not so much like Ted says in that TPTB want to keep silver down. Its more that they don’t really care which way it goes as long as the are on board & going in the correct direction to make money. So sometimes they will push it down like ted says, but other times they will push it down. Anyway, thats my 2 cents worth.

Skunky……What I would like to know…is DID YOU READ the 19 PAGE ARTICLE???

yes i did…. almost completely unreadable. First paragraph - Goldman Sachs tried to assassinate him. Gets better from there. Lots of fun conspiracy ideas and no actual backup to any of it. I’m always amazed by how this guy and many others have everything completely figured out, and the tragedy that no one will listen to them. So many Cassandras so little time to vet them all!

Cassandra was completely accurate in her prophecies – it’s just that no-one believed her.

my point was that they can’t all be accurate! but they sure can sound certain of their beliefs.

ironic.

According to Mises the market can not be forecasted especially not crashes, big swings and exact prices at a given time.
If Armstrong could that was either sheer luck or it was not a market but a manipulation and he had insider info.

Jeeesh…you GUYS….HILARIOUS…..ALMOST COMPLETELY UNREADABLE….nice COMMENT…I should have guessed coming from a WHITE COLLAR COG-O-MATIC. Skunky….you remind me of this:

There was this commercial farmer, who decided to use BIO-DYNAMIC FARMING practices that have perfected by many farmers in Australia. It took a few years, but his corn grew much larger and he could do it at a FRACTION of the cost (organic as well) compared to his fellow farmers. Only a few Farmers who heard of his success actually came by and took a look. Only one had a POSITIVE COMMENT…and he said….WELL, it might work for you, but I couldn’t do it”.

MORAL of the STORY…..some people won’t even DO WHAT WORKS or LISTEN to WHATS RIGHT….EVEN if its RIGHT IN FRONT of them. They rather WALLOW in their own STUPIDITY or NARROW MINDED THINKING.

WORD to your BRAIN SURGEON…….

Andras….EVEN FEKETE says MISES was wrong in certain aspects of his thinking. No man IS RIGHT about EVERYTHING….fer pete sakes. Most people will make a judgement without doing the research.

SRS I’ve read Armstrong and I think he’s one of the smartest guys around. His work on business cycles and patterns in human nature, civilizations is without peer. He made a number of startling predictions such as the collapse of the Russian economy and LT capital, the big event on 9/11 and backs it up with sound figures. Yes he wrote from jail on a typewriter without access to the interent and other resources. No one can argue he didn’t get a raw deal and after his 7 years for “contmpt” for not turning over some gold and stuff theys aid he had he plead guilty to failing to disclose info to his investors and got another 5 years!!! gimme a break. Aanyway one has to have a grasp of his cycle wave theory of nature and civilization to grasp what he is saying. If you think linearly you’ll never get it. The ability of Fibonnacci to predict accurately how many rabbits you would have if you put a male and female together in a closed area for a year and how other natural patterns unfold like in flowers is proof enough for me that we are all part of a natural world/universe that beats to a rhythmic pattern which can be mathematicaly described. Sinclair says Armstrong’s prediction is for gold to turn between 4/19 and end of June sometime so don’t hold onto the 19th of April as THE date. One must be able to think outside our linear mindset to grasp this stuff. Most people can’t. Don’t know about Tom, yet.

rob….well said…not that I NEED A SLAP ON THE BACK….but I find as you say….most people are what I refer to as FIBER. You know…when you eat a piece of fruit, bread or whatever floats your boat….most of what is consumed is FIBER. There are only a small amount of ESSENTIAL NUTRIENTS and MINERALS. The PUBLIC is like one BIG PHAT PILE OF FIBER….just there to FORCE CRAP THROUGH…u know what I mean??

So…we have to EAT, SLEEP and WORK next to the MAJORITY of PEOPLE who will just keep on DOING what they do best….and that is….to ACT LIKE A LARGE INTESTINAL BROOM….nothing personal.

word to your COLONIC THERAPIST

I don’t know SRSrocco. Here’s a negative link..http://nihoncassandra.blogspot.com/2009/01/enigma-of-martin-armstrong-revisited.html

It is frightening that a citizen can spend years in prison on contempt charges with no trial.

Alot of the “I was invited here and there and never charged for my services to stay clean” stuff sounds kinda schizophrenic to me. I was married to one for 20 years. Very high IQ, brilliant really…very complicated conspiracy theories that she was going to “blow the lid off”.

I need more info, sorry.

forwill….I’m not here to DEFEND ARMSTRONG…but I would like to point out something. DAVE RAMSEY has a talk show about GETTING OUT OF DEBT. He had a caller on JAN 23, 2008 asking DAVE about PETER SCHIFF and his BEARISH THEORIES. Dave went on to say that Peter Schiff’s father was a TAX EVADER and was put in JAIL for not paying his TAX BILL. Schiff’s father is one of those who understand that certain taxes are UNCONSTITUTIONAL and depending on the JUDGE and the CIRCUT…you can get off or go to JAIL….its a CRAP SHOOT. Many have WON in COURT and did not have to PAY TAXES….many went to JAIL…without passing GO.

Regardless…..RAMSEY goes on to tell the woman that PETER IS A NUTCASE as well and she should not listen to him. Of course PETER has been DEAD ON in most of his FORECASTS. I read the link and the so called NEGATIVE ARTICLE on ARMSTRONG. Armstrong does not DENY losing money…but if that was the CASE…a great deal of PEOPLE should be put in JAIL for LOSING CLIENTS MONEY….JIM CRAMER is one for example. CRAMER just told people to BUY GE when they announced a DIVIDEND CUT. Anyone who took CRAMERS advice lost their shirt 4 days later. Here is the YOUTUBE AUDIO of DAVE RAMSEY:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S98_eMax9xo

Forwill…..DOES IT MAKE SENSE to LOCK A GUY UP in JAIL without TRAIL for 7 years on FRAUD CHARGES. IF he was CONVICTED of ALL COUNTS he would have served no more than 5. I have read a great deal on MARTIN ARMSTRONG…he is no GOD by any means. But when someone is LOCKED UP for 7 years for CONTEMPT…a RECORD….there is something FOUL. ALAN COHEN who had him put in JAIL without a HEARING is now EXECUTIVE VP of GLOBAL COMPLIANCE for GOLDMAN SACHS???? Facts are Facts.

anyhow…..if anyone wants more INFO….they are FREE to INVESTIGATE themselves….or let it go into CONSPIRACY HEAVEN.

@SRSrocco Here is a link that explores the abuse of civil contempt charges.
http://freebeattychadwick.blogspot.com/2009/01/wsj-no-charge-in-civil-contempt-cases.html
I agree Armstrong is getting the shaft. But it doesn’t automatically validate anything he says.
Corruption, nepotism, cronyism, influence peddling, etc., etc., etc., are alive and well at all levels of our society. Screw with the wrong person and you might get a visit from Child Protective Services, the local nuisance abatement officer, the health department, or local law enforcement. Really piss someone off, and the police will “find” a bag of drugs on your porch and then “impound” all your worldly possesions.

I think its logical to assume, without any evidence, GS is very corrupt, but what can anyone currently do about it when at every turn, government protects it?

I do not know what to make of this article by Armstrong. A big part of me believes it but yes its also quite likely a work of fiction. Interesting as it is I am undecided. What I do have major reservations about is the Pi Cycles. I just do not believe the markets are pre ordained by a higher being which is what these cycles seem to be. I have listened to cycle experts before and their analysis is mostly wrong. How can you pre determine the exact day, and often time of a major market turn? I am not even much into Fib retracements although many people swear by them. And then there is the question of manipulated markets. Do these cycles take into account so called manipulations and corners?

Armstrong claims to have back tested all his data since Adam and Eve, but we have to take his word for that. Until someone with nothing better to do backtests all those cycle dates I am not convinced he is anything more than a quack. I am happy to be proven wrong. If these cycles work we can give up all forms of analysis and just wait for buy points every 8.7 years or so. For now though I will have to stick to simple trendlines.

PART OF TOMS QUOTE:

Clearly Armstrong has something wrong in his head that makes him think that playing victim is worthwhile. He is extremely lucky that a new judge recognized he is insane enough to voluntarily rot in jail until death.

TOM…..I have to say…STRONG WORDS. Interesting coming from you. Always a PLEASURE to read your OPINIONS.

Silver Ax: Do you have proof there is clearly something wrong in his head?

I still fail to see how anyone could actually make it through a Martian Armstrong article.

Forget Treasuries, is copper the future for China?

http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/04/16/54721/forget-treasuries-is-copper-the-future-for-china/

“Nobu Su, head of Taiwan’s TMT group, which ships commodities to China, said Beijing is trying to extricate itself from dollar dependency as fast as it can.”

“The SRB has also been accumulating aluminium, zinc, nickel, and rarer metals such as titanium, indium (thin-film technology), rhodium (catalytic converters) and praseodymium (glass).”

Perhaps you could add silver to that list - is China a net importer now? As to whether a basket of commodities is to be used to back a future regional currency - that remains to be seen. In the meantime we can expect non-cyclical price movements as a particular commodity is stockpiled.

Justin :
I still fail to see how anyone could actually make it through a Martian Armstrong article.

I found it quite illuminating as to the depths to which a psychosis can manifest itself on a typewritten/hand-illustrated page. The bullish case for metals does not need to appeal to dei ex machina to be valid! Doing so makes us all look stupid.

It’s funny, Tom, Skunky and a few others here refer to Martin Armstrong as a nutjob kook. Meanwhile Jim Sinclair refers to Martin Armstrong as a “living genius” http://jsmineset.com/index.php/2009/04/02/anti-gold-promotion-of-imf-gold-sales-not-negative-to-gold/ .

I doubt the combined net worth of Tom, skunky and the other Armstrong bashers is anywhere near the value of Jim Sinclair’s fortune so I will side with Sinclair on this one. Maybe you guys think Jim Sinclair is a kook as well? If so take him on publicly.

skunky/silver ax, would you mind doing me a favor? I’m more than a little unsettled in my Ag bullishness when I read some of the commentary here. (And no, I couldn’t get beyond the assassination attempt — sorry, Mr. Armstrong, wherever you are.) Would you mind reassuring me w/ a fact-based case for metals (that doesn’t involve tea leaves, historical cycles, or any other “dei ex machina”)? I’m in at 10.25/oz, feeling like I deftly missed my sell pt…

Also, silverax, maybe it’s just the fact that I’m off this wk and have little better to do than read the charts, but I seem to notice a relative divergence ETF/spot — SLV seems to be outperforming the spot price by anywhere from 3 to 8 cts. Obviously, you have this tracked much better than I do. Is it true? And, if so, do you still consider it a bullish indicator?

the monetary argument works for me, i.e. that our current central banking system and hence international finance system is prone to failure a la Weimar, and metals such as gold and silver have always and I would hazard will always be considered portable wealth. They have intrinsic value in that they are a product of geology, labor, and scarcity. Having crushed not a few investors in the sell-off in the 80s, they became reviled, and thus their re-ascendance to monetary importance will be quite dramatic, and this will put a premium on physical supplies. New mines are harder to find, and the world requires more and more of these metals to sate their demand.

CPM Group does some good long-term forecasting, funded more by recyclers and miners. Lots of stats. GFMS also, but they’re more funded by smelting/refining companies.

Good post, skunky.
From Nassim Taleb’s 2nd Principle: “In the US in the 20000s, the banks took over the government. This is surreal.”
Interestingly, in Canada the only silver bars RBC sells are 100 oz. and today the rate is $20.35 CAD, but the rate for certificates is $15.49 CAD, plus commission, $25 min. or .25%. RBC buys all silver @ $14.04. If you get real, be prepared to hold it. Maple leaf silver coin cost $20.96. The physical premium spread was much smaller one year ago. Something changed.

Anybody else notice the 0.00000% ’spread’ between May & June ‘09 Comex gold on 16/4? Settlement price that is. It dropped from 0.0009% on the 14/4.

Any significance here?

The spread between April & May also dropped significantly from 0.00034% on 14/4, to 0.00022% on the 15/4 but jumped to 0.00057% on 16/4.

Hm silver did not appear to have a good day. For some reason my gut tells me (hopefully its not the Jim Beam I’m sipping on) that silver wants to move back down to the $8 range. Maybe even $7.30 before any big move higher comes along, reguardless of fundamentals. The problem I have is I see gold going down to $680-$650 and silver will follow the same path on a bigger percentage drop. Real makes no difference to me, I am pretty much buying physical all the time and have not sold a ounce. My plan is to keep buying under $25. Whether thats 6 months, 1 yr, 2 yrs or 5 yrs, that is the plan. Sorta like forced savings.

@Silver This is starting to look alot like earlier this year when silver traded between 10.50 and 11.65 or so for almost a month…then with no apparent proding climbed calmly and steadily to above 14.50. Maybe some big boy insiders were privy in advance to the $300 billion plan. Don’t know/hope not. I think that recent resistance at 11.65 is the important number to watch as far as support goes. Ending the week above 12 tomorrow would be very positive in my view.

Silver: When gold was itching to get above 1000 did your gut tell you it was going to reach some high point along way above that level? If it did then maybe your gut is equally wrong now. Sure charts look bearish right now but they always do right before the turn.

For what is worth I also have a gut feeling about a big drop but I have learned to realise my gut is usually wrong.

“I met Mr. Armstrong in the early 80s. I know his story better than most. This is a man who has been persecuted for his knowledge. He is a modern day Livermore. Armstrong is the only true genius in finance. No one can qualify to tie his shoes.

He was incarcerated because of his talent by an all but now forgotten jurist. The why is forgotten. All that is remembered is someone’s belief he cost the IRS a large chunk of money.”

-Jim Sinclair

7:16 EST/12:16 GMT: Ag @ 11.94 - this does not look like a supply squeeze. Any comments or insights from the OTC market(s)? SLV-price seems to be in a backwardation. Does anybody here have a better insight regarding the backwardation status of Ag futures?

Kipling :
Good post, skunky.
From Nassim Taleb’s 2nd Principle: “In the US in the 20000s, the banks took over the government. This is surreal.”
Interestingly, in Canada the only silver bars RBC sells are 100 oz. and today the rate is $20.35 CAD, but the rate for certificates is $15.49 CAD, plus commission, $25 min. or .25%. RBC buys all silver @ $14.04. If you get real, be prepared to hold it. Maple leaf silver coin cost $20.96. The physical premium spread was much smaller one year ago. Something changed.

This is, of course, ipso facto, evidence of a LACK of manipulation. The Illuminati would not permit such obvious evidence in the market! There isn’t enough fabrication/minted capacity to supply all the finished silver that is being demanded. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t silver, just not 100 oz bars or Maple Leafs. (Can we call them Maple Leaves please?). As I’ve heard others say, you want cheap silver, buy a 5000 oz Comex contract and take delivery. Don’t let middlemen take all that premium.

@skunky
Or…buy a 1000 0z contract on the Liffe exchange and do the same thing. BUT…if yoru using the futures market for physical delivery avoid the new small contracts on the comex; they are cash settlement only.

Steve :“I met Mr. Armstrong in the early 80s. I know his story better than most. This is a man who has been persecuted for his knowledge. He is a modern day Livermore. Armstrong is the only true genius in finance. No one can qualify to tie his shoes.
He was incarcerated because of his talent by an all but now forgotten jurist. The why is forgotten. All that is remembered is someone’s belief he cost the IRS a large chunk of money.”
-Jim Sinclair

Steve….EXCELLENT POST…I read JIM SINCLAIR, who posts most of Martin Armstrongs work. I believe those who are “IN” the so called MARKET, might take the words coming from SINCLAIR as some sort of credible source, as he has been in the market LONGER than MOST. But then again…sometimes people jumped to CONCLUSIONS and behave like the MOB RULE.

Look what happened to Nikolai Kondratiev in RUSSIA. Put away in prison than EXECUTED for his WAVE IDEAS. People think that could never happen in the UNITED STATES….and to that reply…I say….WHAT ARE YOU SMOKING. Certain US Governmental entities in the so called COVERT ACTIVITIES have been overthrowing FOREIGN GOVT’s for years. If Americans are that NAIVE to believe ASSASSINATIONS, COUP D’ ETATS, MANIPULATIONS, MURDER, or EXPLOITATION do not take place in the NAME of PUSHING the GREAT WHITE ELITE WAY…..then they have spent too much time in DISNEY LAND.

It always amazed me how so many GERMANS could fall for and follow a LUNATIC like HITLER….but when I witness AMERICANS today….it doesn’t surprise me ONE BIT. Americans who put AMERICAN FLAGS on their CARS and support a WAR into IRAQ just proves the point….PEOPLE are STUPID enough to FOLLOW a LUNATIC like GEORGE BUSH.

In conclusion…..this POST might not have much to do with SILVER or GOLD…(not directly)….but at least it is good to see some of the SILVERAXIS readers whose BRAIN STEMS are still FUNCITIONING correctly.

PART of TOMS QUOTE:

Finally, I’m fairly certain that Armstrong lost hundreds of millions of dollars that his “clients” had given him, and that makes his investment and market advice rather suspect I would think.

TOM…many people have LOST BILLIONS of investors money. We could state that the DERIVATIVES…CDS, CDS, MBS, SIV and whatever other GARBAGE one can think of is another form of PONZI SCHEME. Are any of these BANK CEO’s or HEDGE FUND CEO’s going to JAIL??? Of course not.

Americans are getting SCREWED from the WALL STREET ELITE, the GOVT through the US TREASURY and FED, but instead of placing BLAME on those INDIVIDUALS who committing the CRIMES…..Americans allow these INDIVIDUALS to continue to RUN THE CIRCUS.

GOD BLESS IGNORANCE.

SRS:”Americans are getting SCREWED from the WALL STREET ELITE, the GOVT through the US TREASURY and FED, but instead of placing BLAME on those INDIVIDUALS who committing the CRIMES…..Americans allow these INDIVIDUALS to continue to RUN THE CIRCUS.

GOD BLESS IGNORANCE.”

What are you doing against them besides whining?

Andras…nicely put my friend….Whinning….that’s rich. My wife and I have taken our own steps where we have become INDEPENDENT of the system. I believe people need to be INDEPENDENT and out of DEBT. Of course we can still have DEPENDENCE on many aspects of LIVING…but if you are in DEBT to your EYES…you are in debt to the MASTERS. And if you are in DEBT to the MASTERS…than you have no LEVERAGE to DEBATE or to DENOUNCE as you are a SLAVE to your DEBTS. If we can’t have OPEN DEBATE about TOPICS….SHOULD WE START BURNING BOOKS??

If you want to call what I am doing as WHINNING…you are free to do so. But if OPEN DEBATE about things are not a CREDIBLE way to DISCUSS TOPICS…then why COMMUNICATE AT ALL??

Its WHINING….NOT WHINNING….my bad.

Silver is touching the bottom of its Bollinger Band today, and I got my superannuation cheque–postdated to next Thursday. Platinum is unlikely to drop below $1200 but gold is extremely tempting. I feel like a kid in a candy store.

SRS,
First people get alienated then society get atomized. You are well over alienation. That is what the powers want. You can be more easily controlled. Alienated people won’t assemble and hardly trade.
It must be great to feel independent but the masters will never allow it. Are you paying taxes? Any visits from gov?
According to the Constitution you should still be the master. Why don’t you even try to keep that position? Start your grassroot organization of your peers (farmers). Please come back and save us, too.

Andras,
Thought provoking post.
Does one run, hide, or fight?

Is not disconnecting from the mainstream a form of resistance too that might benefit others? Sort of like putting on that airline oxygen mask before trying to assist others.

As far as the Constitution goes, it’s “just a piece of paper” – a set of ideas that must be relentlessly defended or else they get trampled.

The Constitution “guarantees” nothing to those who think it does.

It’s looking pretty trampled already to me.

Barbarian,
Every people deserves their government.
You don’t have to fight. Start with your local government or even your HOA. Populate the key positions and start to disassemble the power structure. That is the really hard thing. When you enter the system, even at that low level, you get drunk with power. You become the system. However, if you can resist that is a good start.
And I disagree, the Constitution is “not justa goddamned paper”. It is the most progressive document of human history. Freedom loving people of other countries still envy you. Deserve it!

Andras,
I agree with you.

Though regarding the Constitution, I think you missed my point.

What you said is correct, however, the Constitution IS just a piece of paper IF people do not relentlessly defend it. Think about this.

Look at the damage done so far in the US simply because not enough people resist unconstitutional actions. In some circles one is looked upon as a kook if he/she speaks out against unconstitutional acts.

I’ll say again, hopefully more clearly, those who look upon the Constitution as a “guarantee” have taken the first step toward losing it. Instead it is a guide that must be followed and defended by every generation. Those who feel they are entitled to certain “rights” without having to defend the rights of others are fooling themselves.

Andras :SRS,First people get alienated then society get atomized. You are well over alienation. That is what the powers want. You can be more easily controlled. Alienated people won’t assemble and hardly trade.It must be great to feel independent but the masters will never allow it. Are you paying taxes? Any visits from gov?According to the Constitution you should still be the master. Why don’t you even try to keep that position? Start your grassroot organization of your peers (farmers). Please come back and save us, too.

I beg to differ. Let me explain…if I may. When I say INDPENDENT…I mean DEBT FREE and with the ability to CALL THE SHOTS. If young adults over the past several decades decided to stay home with their parents and save up to pay CASH for a HOUSE, CAR and etc…they would be in a much different situation today.

For one thing…HOMES would cost a great deal less. The masses taking out a 30 year mortgage increases the price of the home as they can AFFORD a more expensive home as it is paid off over a longer period of time. Furthermore…there would be LESS PROFITS going into BANKS who make a KILLING in interest over the maturity of the LOAN.

Think about it. Lets say…some young man who wants to be a TRUCKER…over the road driver. He stays at home and saves most of his cash and then BUYS a HOME FREE AND CLEAR. If most of the TRUCK DRIVERS did this…whenever there was a PROBLEM with LOW RATES or PAY or HIGH COST OF FUEL…they could STRIKE in MASS as they do not HAVE TO HAVE A PAYCHECK to pay their RENT, MORTGAGE or etc. They would be AWASH IN CASH and SAVINGS. These TRUCKERS would be DEBT FREE. They would HOLD the CARDS…not the BANKERS…COMPANIES or INSTITUTIONS. This would be the same for the DAIRIES, BAKERS, BUTCHERS, CONSTRUCTION PEOPLE, RETAIL and etc and etc.

Adam Smith explained that the REAL BILLS DOCTRINE that Fekete writes about in his articles, put the VOTING POWER in the GOLD CARRYING CONSUMERS HANDS. The TRADESMEN did not need the BANKS as they FINANCED through short term BILLS OF CREDIT the movement of GOODS to the market. Also, one GOLD COIN did the work of many, so to speak.

Andras…when I talk about INDEPENDENCE…I mean not being STRADDLED WITH DEBT. Third World Countries have been LOOTED through the WORLD BANK and IMF by this same PROCESS. If most AMERICANS had their own HOME DEBT FREE, their CAR PAID in FULL, and a small GARDEN they would have a GREAT DEAL MORE RIGHTS as they could QUIT a JOB or PROTEST against horrible working conditions as they did not need the PAYCHECK. Most AMERICANS are 2 paychecks from BANKRUPTCY.

This is where I am going with my THOUGHTS. I don’t just BLAME the WALL STREET ELITE or GOVT….AMERICANS lined up to get into DEBT up to their EYEBALLS without a GUN POINTED to their HEAD. There is always the YING and YANG. If AMERICANS were smarter, they would have taken the harder road to PAY CASH and be DEBT FREE. Today…I am in that situation. I don’t have to work…even though I do PART TIME WORK for the HELL of it. If the OWNER of the company did not TREAT ME FAIRLY…I could WALK OUT THE DOOR and not have to worry that I NEEDED THAT MONEY to PAY RENT or pay a MORTGAGE.

That is the MAIN PROBLEM I see today. DEBT is the BALL and CHAIN, not the GOVT or WALL STREET. Americans NEED HANDOUTS and HELP from the GOVT because they were too IMPATIENT and IGNORANT to take their LIFE in their OWN HANDS and be DEBT FREE.

congrats on 100 comments! probably a record on this site, eh Tom?

@SRSrocco I blame the government totally. Under the fiat system, even if the people paid cash for everything, the Gov would still spend beyond its means and constantly debase the currency. This is why the savings rate went negative for a while. The people knew they were getting screwed by inflation whenever they saved for the future. So they took out loans, with fixed rates at first, so they wouldn’t have the uncertainty of saving for stuff that might cost 25% more in three years.
Its F’ed up to me, that even the most recent core inflation figure of 1.8% YOY is considered “low”. Its more of the same thievery by the polititions.

Barbarian,
I totally agree! I apologize, I have misunderstood you.
One addition I would make. People need to recognize that the Constitution is their defense against the state and shouldn’t expect the very state to interpret it to their favor. There are delusions behind every mistakes. Getting rid of this would clear the road to freedom immensely.

SRS,
I agree with forwill. Under the FED system you have no better economic choices than what people are doing. Of course, even under the gold standard, people would do “stupid” things.
The banksters were smart, they new what they were doing. If you want people to save and be independent you have to strike at the root and abolish the FED and reestablish the gold standard. Without that all are just illusions.

In the April issue of AAII Journal there’s an article that states TAXES are retiree’s in their 70’s biggest expense! Of 225 suveyed between the ages of 70 1/2 and 75, with a net worth of at least $1 million, the average personal income tax bill was $25,226. Add in real estate, capital gains, and personal property tax, and the average annual tax expense was $40,578. The average health related costs were only $6,681 per year in comparison. F the government!

Jeez, I need a spell check

The Constitution is indeed a piece of paper with many fine Libertarian ideas embedded into it. The problem is that it is the government’s document.They get to interpret it and amend it. Everything goes their way, and after many years its original spirit is crushed.

This government expansion in scope and power is inevitable. It has always occurred, and always will. The current nation called The United States of America is no exception.

Trying to change the system by getting into and using the system to restore freedom will not work. Truly ethical people cannot enter government, as they must necessarily behave unethically to enter, and so they won’t. Joining a group of people who have a monopoly use of force and are funded by taking money from productive people through force is just not an option.

Social progress is not forever destined to channel through government for the entirety of the existence of the human race. Think outside the box. Government is unnecessary. A radical concept, but true. We all know who is responsible for the current economic crisis, and it is not because of people who wish to freely trade labor and products with each other as they see fit.

forwill said “F the government!” which is a good idea which can be generalized into “F all government!”

How many of you are declaring your physical holdings of PMs to the IRS? Why is that? Because the gummint doesn’t have any $%^^&* right to take your stuff. You are taking a step in the right direction. Apply that idea to everything you do, and then you achieve the result of freedom.

I’m guessing that SRS is attempting to live along these lines, and it is not really possible to do completely when you have to interact with a society happily manacled to its beloved institutions, but seeing what’s what really does give you a feeling of empowerment. Being laughed at for being crazy and different doesn’t really bother a person confident in what he KNOWS.

Don’t hit people, and don’t take their stuff. When society adopts these rules (yes, people who inevitably break the rules must be punished) and holds all individuals accountable to this simple standard, then all these problems that are caused by the guys with the guns and their own rules and colorful flags can go away.

Utopian? I don’t think so. Utopian is believing you can use violence and coercion to achieve peace. That is illogical, hence impossible.

If you are on this website, you are already thinking outside the box. Take it further.

I’m done.

yes but without government how can we get involved in all of these excellent land wars in Asia? I always find it amusing to listen to the neocons who supported invading Iraq with its trillion-dollar price tag get all righteous about infrastructure spending in the good old USA.

skunky,

You used the word “we.” Did you personally take part in getting “us” involved in recent wars?

Why did you do that?

: >

tzo….I agree with your post #106. Of course people can do whatever they want…but they REAP what they SOW. As I stated in my previous post, when people stay out of DEBT, the BANKERS have no LEVERAGE as they do not have the HUGE AMOUNT OF INTEREST coming in from a FRACTIONAL RESERVE POLICY. When the ASSETS and WEALTH are distributed amongst the WORKERS, TRADESMEN, OWNERS and CONSUMERS, then the BANKS and GOVT will have to SERVE those who HAVE THE POWER. As ADAM SMITH stated….the power is in the GOLD CARRYING CONSUMER….not the BANKS. The TRADESMEN FINANCE all the DIVISION of LABOR to get GOODS to market themselves…no BANKS are needed thus there is no INTEREST or INFLATION added to that system.

I am not talking about SOCIALISM or COMMUNISM, I am talking about AMERICANS taking the PATIENCE and WISDOM to build their WEALTH SLOWLY paying CASH for just about EVERYTHING. If this was done in the past 3-4 DECADES….the ASSETS would not be in the GLOBAL ELITES hands…but rather in the typical JOE-BAG-OF-DOUGHNUTS. If most of AMERICANS owned their HOMES FREE and CLEAR, AUTOMOBILE(S) FREE and CLEAR, SMALL GARDEN, and AWASH IN CASH (in GOLD and SILVER), They could DEMAND the GOVT to PUT UP or SHUT UP.

But Instead….they got IN DEBT up to their EYEBALLS and now they want the GOVT to FIX all the PROBLEMS now that the DERIVATIVES MONSTER is DEVOURING the PHYSICAL ECONOMY. If Americans had saved and been DEBT FREE they would have the CAPITAL to INVEST into FUTURE GROWTH. But now the USA is one BIG STINKING PILE OF DEBT, with LUNATICS in GOVT thinking they can PRINT MONEY to CAPITALIZE the SYSTEM. How INSANE is that.

So…all people can do now, is to GET OUT OF DEBT and to PAY CASH for EVERYTHING. If you have to move back home to do it…then SO BE IT. But as you can see…this will FURTHER CONTRACT the ECONOMY. It’s going to happen regardless as we have to GET RID of the LEECH and SPEND CONSUMER ECONOMY and build a SAVINGS and PRODUCTIVE ECONOMY.

Again….if AMERICANS were out of DEBT and had plenty of CASH (GOLD and SILVER)…there would be no COLLAPSE, DISINTEGRATION or DEPRESSION. Furthermore…..there would be LESS WARS as you can’t FINANCE WARS without BORROWING, INFLATING or TAXING the PUBLIC. I am all for the CONSTITUTION…but AMERICANS need to VOTE with their CASH and not with their DEBTS.

RULE OF THUMB…..MORE DEBT…..LESS CONSTITUTION…..LESS DEBT and CASH…more CONSTITUTION.

The last line should read MORE DEBT…LESS CONSTITUTION…LESS DEBT and MORE CASH more CONSTITUTTION.

The lunatics (sociopaths) in government are simply doing what they have always done: Take more and more until they take too much, and they never know where that line is.

The government is NOT printing money to capitalize the system. You impart good intentions to their actions. The government is printing money to transfer wealth from you to them.

No citizen can demand ANYTHING from his government, because his government has the monopoly on force and can do whatever it pleases. Your vote does not create a contract binding another individual to act as your agent. All the individuals in government do whatever they like, and they do it with money that is not theirs.

If the best Constitution ever dreamt up by man, meant to constrain government to its barest essentials, has morphed into the LARGEST, MOST POWERFUL GOVERNMENT THE WORLD HAS EVER SEEN, then what do you try next?

SRS: What do you DEPEND on the government for that you could not contract for privately? Postal delivery? Roads? Security?

I agree that ultimately, if everyone could “vote” with REAL MONEY, then the government would wither away.

Real Money. No Constitution. Total Freedom.

Your CAPS are contagious.

: >

Well are you guys about done with all the bullshit. The horse is dead stop beating on it. Does anyone have any comments on the metal markets this past week and where we maybe headed. Lets move forward here, we all know the government is crooked.

And we all know that silver is a metal, so why waste your discussing it?

time

China appears to be buying copper “in excess of commercial needs”.
If this is true, it should also increase supplies of silver being
produced since much silver production is a byproduct of copper mining.
Are there any indications that China is also buying silver? If
not, is that “excess” silver being absorbed by investors? Are
the copper miners holding back their silver secondary production
waiting for a better price?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/comment/ambroseevans_pritchard/5160120/A-Copper-Standard-for-the-worlds-currency-system.html

@JohnST Interesting article, if high inflation does occur, the metal content of all these copper/nickel coins we’re carrying around will be worth much more than face value and disappear from circulation like the old silver coins.

@forwill I like to point out to people that if you had stashed all your quarters under your mattress in 1964, you’d be way ahead of inflation.

@skunky Yeah skunky, it only took 45 years for a paper dollar to be worth a silver dime.

I couldn’t help it…ordered more silver rounds today. SRSROCCO, Thanks for hooking me up with APM*X.

On this dip the SLV ETF has added another 22 million ounces…went from 248m to 270m…am I seeing that right?

Oops, i was looking at that wrong..dummy

Think there is NO MANIPULATION IN THE MARKETS. Check out ZERO HEDGE BLOG where one of the best FINANCIAL BLOGGERS reveals some quite interesting information in PROGRAM TRADING and etc. According to ZERO HEDGE:

Goldman Sachs Principal Transactions Update: 850 Million Shares

Posted by Tyler Durden at 3:48 PM
“For every seller there is a buyer.”

Goldman Sachs continues its to trounce everyone in principal program purchases, its 850 million principal shares representing 81% of all its traded shares, more than half of all NYSE reporting firms principal trades.

Maybe Goldman can focus on servicing its “clients” instead of “itself” for once.
—————————–

PRINCIPAL TRADING STATS:

GOLDMAN SACHS………..850 Million shares
Credit Suisse (USA)…..187 Million shares
Merrill Lynch………..193 Million shares
Morgan Stanley……….110 Million shares
Deutsche Bank………..103 Million shares

You can see the chart here: http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FM71j6-VkNE/Sejdq_yBuyI/AAAAAAAAB_c/dPWf6ew1Zlg/s1600-h/NYSEprog.jpg

Looks like MIKE MORGAN who started the GoldmanSachs666.com website reveaing the TRUTH behind the Scenes is being SUED by GOLDMAN for using its name in its website. This is the MODERN DAY…DAVID vs GOLIATH. Morgan is getting 100’s of VOLUNTEERS on his website to help with research, defense and administrative duties. He is also getting FREE PROFESSIONAL and LEGAL help. It’s nice to see that there are SOME PEOPLE out there PUTTING THE PIECES together…even though many are CONVINCED there is NO MANIPULATION.

@SRSRocco

That’s actually a good article. I had read it last week and bought more gold and silver after I did.

Time For Mankiv To Resign

“Imagine that the Fed were to announce that, a year from today, it would pick a digit from zero to 9 out of a hat. All currency with a serial number ending in that digit would no longer be legal tender. Suddenly, the expected return to holding currency would become negative 10 percent.”

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2009/04/time-for-mankiv-to-resign.html

I think people are more fearful of the Fed adding a zero to FRN’s in a years time!

forwill :
@JohnST Interesting article, if high inflation does occur, the metal content of all these copper/nickel coins we’re carrying around will be worth much more than face value and disappear from circulation like the old silver coins.

New Zealand did that a year ago - in the interest of easier coinage for people. We have also given away our 1c 2c and 5c pieces. The smallest unit of coinage is now 10c

@silverax
Tom you can’t use that kind of reasoning to prove anything. A lot of us think Armstrong is a smart guy-yeah maybe he comes off a bit disoriented sometimes. Being incarcerated illegally for 7 years might contribute to that. BTW 18 mos. is always the longest a contempt sentence is kept. It’s deemd inneffective in it’s purpose of forcing compliance doesn’t work within that period unless there’s reason to suspend the constitution or something like that.
Anyway give us one argument of Armstrong’s that you consider evidence of mental illness on it’s face!!!

Tom….If you read the ARTICLE CLEARLY…you would have understood it was HIS FAMILY, READERS and FOLLOWERS that said it was an ASSASSINATION ATTEMPT…not ARMSTRONG. Armstrong stated this in his article:
————-
Many people have written asking about Goldman Sachs and its conspiracy to control the Financial Markets. I have even been asked whether I believe that the attempt to assassinate me of May 10th, 2007, was connected to Goldman Sachs? Let me explain this subject very carefully. I realize that there is a storm cloud brewing with conspiracy stories with Goldman Sachs at the center. These theories are not perhaps absolutely correct, but they are not far off either.
—————————

TOM…did you get the SENTENCE where he says “I have even been asked whether I believe that the attempt to assassinate me on May 10th 2007, was connected to Goldman Sachs?” He states it as a QUESTION to those who asked HIM…HE NEVER STATED IT. Furthermore, if a INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER questions the INMATES to see if MARTIN WAS ALMOST BEATEN to DEATH without the GUARDS RESPONDING, and if there are RECORDS of him being treated in the intensive care facility in BEEKMAN HOSPITAL in NEW YORK, then we would have evidence of an ATTACK.

TOM…you can put a JUDGEMENT on a PERSON from where you are in SOCIEITY. I am not saying I BELIEVE in ARMSTRONGS WORDS 100%, but I FAVOR his words over GOLDMAN SACHS who is trying to send the THUGS and LAWYERS to have a BLOGGER get rid of his ANTI-GOLDMAN SACHS website.

Lastly…..TOM you are not that NAIVE to believe there are no SUCH THINGS AS ASSASSINATIONS or etc. At least during the ROMAN TIMES, ASSASSINATIONS were done in the OPEN and you KNEW who was going to KILL YOU. TODAY it is done by SUBTLE MEANS in ACCIDENTS, HEART ATTACKS, LONE GUNMAN, and CRAZY INMATES going GORILLA on another INMATE.

Not every MURDER is a CONSPIRACY….but there are INDIVIDUALS and GROUPS that CONSPIRE to committ these actions. A person who believes this not to be the case….is TOTALLY DELUDED in my BOOK.

@silverax
Tom forgive me and sorry to belabor the issue but I’m looking for some credible arguments against the guy’s theories and you did not offer any fundamental critique of the man’s economic theories. Rather you impugn the guy. If there was proof of fraud on his part then why didn’t the govt. ever prosecute him for it and why did no one come forward to claim he defrauded them or sue him or prove that the assets the govt was after existed somewhere(they might but there’s no proof). I don’t think anyone ever did and you compare him to Madoff. there’s no comparison either on scale or deed. He at least invested the money in something akin to what he represented.
Find me a case of someone locked up for more than 3 years for contempt! I don’t think you will. He plead guiltuy to failure to properly disclose info to his investors-doesn’t sound like a Ponzi scheme to me. No one knows what happenned with him and GS but they are freakin’ taking over the bloody govt.! Sit in jail for 7 years without being charged of anything and see how paranoid you become. Milken did far less time than Armstrong and came out of jail a very wealthy man.
Now if you want to find an egregious act of financial fraud that trumps Madoff look no further than wall st (GS for sure) and our financial leaders. OTC derivatives are an outright fraud cloaked in fancy legal language that no one understands sold by people who belong in jail far more than Martin Armstrong.
I’m trying to get at some logical arguments for either accepting what he says or finding fault with it. The fact that his investment advice did not pay off is not the issue. Many bright minds predicted what would happen in the world economy but were wrong about the investment strategy that would benefit. We all saw that last year.
I do appreciate your logical scientific approach to investing and the short term trading opportunities and analysis you share with us. But so far you haven’t shown me that your criticism of Armstrong’s wave/cycle theories are credible to the point I should change my opinion about them. Human nature doesn’t seem to change and history does repeat itself and is often a predictor of future events.

ROB…GOOD POST….here’s a great article

Jack Bauer can’t stop ‘The Goldman Conspiracy’
10 reasons why Wall Street has absolute power over America’s democracy

Scene 1. American government is now run by the ‘Goldman Conspiracy’
Oh, you really think just I’m plotting a television series? Or just paranoid, exaggerating this power grab? You better read “The Usual Suspects,” Matthew Malone’s brilliant article in Portfolio magazine: He “exposed” the “Goldman Sachs ‘conspiracy’ to take over the U.S. financial system.” Read it in this context: America’s financial sector has exploded from 19% of corporate profits in 1986 to 41% today, becoming a magnet for every wannabe billionaire. They know why Wall Street must control Washington.
Malone focuses on the incestuous “conspiracy” of Goldman alumni in Treasury, Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, AIG, Citigroup, Washington lobbyists and politicians.
Scene 2. Huge conflicts motivating Wall Street’s ‘Trojan Horse’
And just in case you think any emphasis on The Hammer’s conflict of interest was invented purely to increase drama, please remember that he worked at Goldman for three decades after serving under Nixon. He got $38 million his last year as CEO in 2006 before becoming Treasury Secretary.
Then during the market meltdown six months ago the $700 million personal fortune he built at Goldman was threatened by Goldman’s huge $20 billion derivatives exposure at AIG: Suddenly his responsibilities at Treasury merged with a strong self-interest in protecting his personal fortune. AIG was “saved.”
Scene 3. Wall Street’s ‘quiet coup’ also runs world’s banking system
There’s another equally disturbing expose in “The Quiet Coup,” Simon Johnson’s great article in Atlantic magazine. A former chief economist at the International Monetary Fund, Johnson also warns that America’s “financial industry has effectively captured our government” and is “blocking essential reform.”
Worse, he says that unless we break Wall Street’s stranglehold (unlikely in the new Washington) we will be unable “to prevent a true depression,” warning that “we’re running out of time,” echoing many of our predictions of the “Great Depression II” coming soon. See previous Paul B. Farrell.

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/even-jack-bauer-couldnt-stop/story.aspx?guid=%7BBE0D1772-A628-454D-80BF-C4484CEBA7DF%7D&dist=msr_1?www.GoldmanSachs666.com

———————–

That’s only 3 of the 10 reasons. Thank God for the INTERNET and ALTERNATIVE MEDIA. TOM if you are that NAIVE not to see what is going on here with GOLDMAN and JP MORGAN? Many GERMAN CITIZENS denied to the END that the JEWS were being EXTERMINATED….but does that mean that it WASN’T TAKING PLACE??