Investigated to Death
Ted Butler is on a roll publishing a trifecta this week of his thinking about silver manipulation. The second installment is All Talk, No Action, a condemnation of the yet-unconcluded CFTC investigation of COMEX silver manipulation. I could spend a bunch of time debating many of Mr. Butler’s points but I will simply pick two as they are the foundations of much of his 20 years of futile argument. Despite their seniority, these arguments are surprisingly easy to prick and deflate.
From Mr. Butler:
As I wrote yesterday, all the evidence from the OTC market, as documented by the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency (OCC), indicates that the big U.S. banks, led by JPMorgan Chase, had been heavily short silver derivatives in the OTC as well. Since when do you hedge a short position with another short position?
As I explained earlier, the OCC reports do not indicate in which direction — short or long - that JPMorgan and other big banks hold their OTC and exchange-traded derivative positions. Instead, the OCC reports show total notionals and gross exposures. If anything, all the evidence points to bank positions being held in both directions in roughly equal proportions, which is exactly what one would expect from a dealer who is primarily intermediating (acting as a clearing party) between bids and offers from customers. Moreover, using total notionals to calculate underlying asset amounts results in double-counting. Also, JPMorgan’s own financial statements reveal a propensity to be net long in the relatively small amount of primary commodities-related trading that it does for its own account. In conclusion, please allow me to answer Mr. Butler’s question of “when do you hedge a [COMEX] short position with another [OTC] short position?” YOU DON’T. At least not in the real world although it seems almost anything is possible in his imagination. For example Mr. Butler see evidence of short positions in the OCC reports where no such evidence exists. Sadly that leaves him asking questions that are rhetorical solely in his own mind.
More Mr. Butler:
Commissioner Chilton characterizes my analysis in removing all spread transactions in order to calculate true net total open interest as a spin and he claims that there is no good economic reason to calculate on this basis. He further states that it is wrong to look at the aggregate position of the large traders, as it could include proprietary as well as customer positions. He (or Commission staff) sees no evidence of collusion among the large short traders.
I would counter that, as I explained in my original commentary, spread transactions are distinct from true outright positions and must be considered as separate and different from outright positions. In fact, the CFTC confirms this in their breaking out of non-commercial spread positions in every COT report. Look, I know Commissioner Chilton is relying on staff input in his message, but this must be embarrassing for him. Spreads must be removed to calculate true net open interest and concentration. Any representation to the contrary is plain dishonest.
As far as the aggregate position of the large traders, I would suggest that Commissioner Chilton and staff bone up on CFTC regulations. The Large Trader Reporting System (LTRS) outlines aggregation guidelines. http://www.cftc.gov/industryoversight/marketsurveillance/ltrp.html
What matters in determining aggregation is financial interest and control. Let me give you an example.
If a hedge fund, with a thousand individual investors, buys or sells commodity futures in its name on behalf of those investors, its position will be listed as a single trader in the COTs. That’s because the hedge fund is in control and decides when to buy and sell, not the investors in that fund. That’s the way it should be. The whole purpose is to monitor the market impact of the hedge fund and guard against manipulation.
Likewise, when JP Morgan controls the buying and selling of its customers, that trading is aggregated as one account, also as it should be. If certain customers of JP Morgan decide when to buy or sell independent from Morgan and are of large reporting size, those customers will be listed as separate traders in the COT. Therefore, this business that aggregation explains away the concentrated short position of JP Morgan in silver is bogus. If they control the trading, then they are considered a single trader.
Here Mr. Butler uses the classic parlor trick of distraction and sleight of hand. He buries the real issue — which is that the large commercial traders are primarily trading not for themselves but on behalf of customers by offsetting physical or swap trades on the COMEX — by going off on tangents about spread positions and financial interest/control. Forget control and consider that the commercial dealers have many customers who do not have futures accounts and that is why they are using the services of a dealer in the first place. When will Mr. Butler actually start debating this issue?
I have nothing more to say on the matter other than to provide the following excerpt from the CFTC’s May 2008 silver market investigation (emphasis mine). Based on this I’m not sure what else the CFTC still needs to investigate other than the large COMEX silver short position that the 2 U.S. banks, JPMorgan and HSBC USA, held last summer right before the big selloff in silver. Everything else is just beating an old horse to death.
An area that has drawn significant attention from silver commentators is the level of concentration among short traders in the silver futures market, as reported in the CFTC’s weekly Commitments of Traders (COT) reports. The COT report provides a breakdown of each Tuesday’s open interest for markets in which 20 or more traders hold positions equal to or above the reporting levels established by the CFTC. The report shows open interest separately by reportable and non-reportable positions. For reportable positions, additional data is provided for commercial and non-commercial holdings, spreading, changes from the previous report, percent of open interest by category, number of traders, and the concentration of positions held by the largest four and eight traders.
Silver commentators have argued that the four-trader net short position reported in the COT reports is unusually high and imply that it is indicative of an effort by a specific group of four or fewer traders to maintain low prices indefinitely. The commentators also imply that the futures positions held by these traders are “naked” in that they are not legitimate hedge positions or otherwise entered into to offset positions in the physical silver market. To evaluate this claim, staff examined the specific traders comprising the top four shorts and their overall futures positions, their motives for holding these positions, how the levels of concentration in the silver futures market compare to those in similar futures markets (i.e., gold, platinum, palladium, and copper), and the relationship between open interest concentration and the level of open interest held by these futures traders to changes in silver futures prices.
The analysis of open interest, collected daily from June 6, 2005 through January 16, 2008—a total of 659 days in the sample—indicates that the composition of market participants among the top four net traders is not static, though certain traders do appear in the top four significantly more often than others. For the period as a whole, there were a total of 10 different traders who at some point were counted among the top four in terms of their net short futures position.(10) Of those 10, three were present in the top four more than 50 percent of the time. The trader most often in the top four was usually ranked number two in terms of net position size among traders, when present. The trader present second most often was typically ranked fourth among the top four traders, and was never ranked first. Finally, the trader showing up third most often was usually the number one ranked trader, holding that position on 356 days of the 475 days in which they were present in the top four. Thus, the Commission’s large trader data shows that, as opposed to the allegation that four traders dominate the market by consistently holding a large concentrated short position, the top four traders at any point in time may involve any of 10 different market participants. Notably, these large traders are not always net short; of these 10 traders, four at times were among the top four net long silver futures traders. These data show that any scheme to manipulate the silver futures market would require involvement of up to 10 traders as opposed to the four that silver commentators suggest. This renders the allegation more implausible, as such a large diverse group would increase the difficulty and complexity of effecting concerted actions while ensuring discipline within the group.(11)
In addition, the top 10 traders are not monolithic and represent a wide diversity of business interests with diverse customer bases. In this regard, staff interviewed five of the largest traders that are included among the group of 10.(12) Based on these interviews and from the Commission’s records, the staff has determined that the entities in this group are involved in the silver markets as dealer/merchants, index traders, swaps/derivatives dealers, money managers, banks and silver depositories. Two of the five traders interviewed indicated the futures positions they entered into were to offset activity that they engaged in with customers situated in the physical silver markets. This activity included buying silver from producers and selling silver to consumers in various manufacturing industries. Few of the futures positions of these two traders represented proprietary trading of the firms. The remaining three traders were less active in the physical markets, but, nonetheless, they primarily established futures positions to offset other obligations, such as over-the-counter swap trades and other financially settled contracts, that they had entered into with their customers. For each firm interviewed, their futures trading activities are driven primarily by the desires and needs of the firms’ customers to either buy or sell silver or to assume or hedge financial exposure to silver prices.
The interviews also revealed that the customer base of these firms is large and broad. The customer base of the firms was estimated to range from 50 to hundreds of individual traders or firms. Those firms that tended to cater to clients in the physical markets tended to have smaller customer bases than those dealing in financially settled contracts. Of the traders dealing primarily in financially settled contracts, the largest customers of these traders tended to be hedge funds, who, depending on market conditions and trading strategies, take long or short positions against the trader.The silver commentators tend to rely on the Commitments of Traders reports to portray silver shorts as a group of four—possibly eight traders—intent on suppressing prices. Underlying these allegations is an implicit assumption that those traders listed among the top four net short futures traders are always the same traders and that their futures trading activity represents proprietary decisions. The reality, however, is that there is a larger, more varied group of individual traders that constitute the top four net short traders over time. Moreover, as noted above, the positions of the large futures traders are, for the most part, driven by their customer base. These customers may be involved in buying or selling physical silver, or seeking a long or short financial exposure to silver prices. Little of the overall futures trading done by the five firms interviewed appears to be as a result of proprietary trading decisions of the firms. Thus, with respect to the traders’ overall positions across all silver markets, the firms holding the largest net short futures positions are more-or-less market neutral.
The understanding that the largest net short silver futures traders have an overall neutral position in the silver market is confirmed by information collected by NYMEX relating to several of these large traders. In August 2007, NYMEX contacted several of the largest short silver futures traders requesting specific information regarding their activity in the silver cash and OTC markets.(13) The exchange found that these firms generally held significant forward purchase and sales agreements that, overall, left the firms with a net long silver exposure. The short futures positions on NYMEX were approximately offset by their long cash exposure. This means that, contrary to the silver commentators’ allegations, the largest net short traders in the NYMEX silver futures markets are not “naked” shorts, as the firms’ overall exposure in the silver markets (considering their futures, cash and OTC positions) is approximately neutral.(10) By comparison, there were 14 traders in the gold futures market who at one time were counted among the top four net short traders. Of these 14, five traders also were in the list of the top four net short traders in the silver market.
(11) It should be noted that allegations regarding violations of the CEA or Commission regulations often come from parties within the industry, be they company insiders, disgruntled employees or competitors. In the more than 20-year period over which the silver commentators maintain that prices have been manipulated, the Division has not received a single tip or allegation from any of these sources that a conspiracy to manipulate prices downward has been taking place.
(12) Largeness was determined by both the frequency with which a trader appeared among the top four net short futures traders and by the average size of their position when they were in the top four.
(13) Four of the firms contacted by NYMEX were among the five firms interviewed by Commission staff.
Time to clean up?
Huge COMEX delivery taken by Deutsche Bank:
http://www.cmegroup.com/trading/energy-metals/files/delivery.pdf
I have 3 years of COMEX delivery data, and while this is somewhat bigger than 2007 it is running at about 50% of 2008. So no, it is not “time to clean up”.
Did the ECB Save COMEX from Gold Default?
“Mysteriously, on the very same day that gold was due to be delivered to COMEX long buyers, at almost the very same moment that Deutsche Bank was giving notice of its deliveries, the ECB happened to have “sold” 35.5 tons, or a total of 1,141,351 ounces of gold, on March 31, 2009. Convenient, isn’t it? ”
http://seekingalpha.com/article/129128-did-the-ecb-save-comex-from-gold-default
I dont understand:
if ‘they’ buy physical & sell paper
even if the position isn’t naked
in a cash settled market, why would they deliver the physical?
ex: london nickel ‘06
now throw in backwardation & even if the hedge is equal in count
paper promised tomorrow does not equal physical today
maybe they’re insured thru aig
I’m not sure I understand the question, but COMEX does not absolutely require physical to be delivered and the exchange has shown repeatedly in the past that it will not permit demands for physical delivery to default the market. Just in the past two months they passed a rule (nobody paid attention to it but it is fairly important) limiting the number of grain contracts each trader can carry into delivery:
Release: 5613-09
For Release: February 13, 2009
CFTC Approves Limits on the Number of Agricultural Delivery Instruments that can be Held for Non-Commercial Purposes
If push comes to shove you bet they will do the same with gold and silver.
>>the exchange … will not permit demands for physical delivery to default the market<>If push comes to shove you bet they will do the same with gold and silver<<
so a paper promise,
that doesnt have to be honored,
under a rule system that can change midgame
[now] I know why I dont know anything about the paper markets
thankfully I was ignorant enough to start w/ physical
well, Im still trying to learn,
I wanna Play the paper Game too…
as long as all parties know the risks,
socalled manipulation is a nonissue
as an aside, its laughable that a federal agency could try to categorize anyone as ‘non-commercial’
regarding the commerce clause / 10th amendment:
Wickard v. Filburn (1942), the Court ruled that federal regulations of wheat production could constitutionally be applied to wheat grown for “home consumption” The rationale was that a farmer’s growing “his own wheat” can have a substantial cumulative effect on interstate commerce, if farmers were allowed to consume their own wheat, it would affect the interstate market in wheat.
Since the SEC missed Madoff,AIG,Citi,AD INFINITUM more cases. To believe that silver is the only (un manipulated market) in the US is much harder to believe than that Ted Butler is UNEQIVACABLY RIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!
Based on the intrinsic and extrinsic evidence of the market for the last 30 yrs. I believe Ted Butler has TONS MORE CREDIBILITY!!!!!
There is zero evidence of manipulation of the silver market by commercial dealers in an attempt to suppress the price. There may be innuendo and unexplained circumstances but no actual bona fide real evidence. As for credibility, time will tell.
Easy to disprove manipulation.
OPEN THE BOOKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is America, you don’t disprove things as a defendant, you prove them as the plaintiff.
I agree with Eugene.
ITS QUITE SIMPLE:
Why is there TOTAL TRANSPARENCY on the TOCOM and not the CRIMEX?? Why can’t the TRADERS be made PUBLIC??? AYE?? It seems as if only in AMERICA does the SEC protect the INSTITUTION and BROKERS over the INVESTORS (Okay…maybe Canada too).
My TWO CENTS….I agree with both TOM and TED. I wrote an email to TED last year about the SILVER BASIS that Fekete had spoke about, and TED replied that he had no CLUE of what Fekete was talking about. TED is CLUELESS of the BASIS. Fekete and Szabo score much higher on the intelligence factor concerning the BASIS.
But…..if it LOOKS like a FISH….SWIMS like a FISH….and is ROTTING in the back seat of your CAR and SMELLS like a FISH…it’s probably a FISH. TED might not understand the BASIS….but TED has got a GOOD HANDLE on FISH. TOM has a good HANDLE on the trading BASIS and LOGIC.
Fekete is correct when he states that GOLD and SILVER are the only monetary metals that can EXTINGUISH DEBT. The IRREDEEMABLE DOLLAR cannot provide the market with CAPITAL even though LIL TIMMY GEITHNER, BENJAMIN BUCKS BERNANKE and 12 MISCREANT DWAFFS of the TOP BANKS want it so.
The 64 QUADRILLION DOLLAR QUESTION??? ARE GOLD and SILVER been MANIPULATED by the FED, TREASURY and MEMBER BANKS?? If you think about all those TREASURIES backed by the PROMISE of the US GOVT and the HEALTH of the DOLLAR….common sense would tell you that the KING MONETARY METALS need not APPLY. Thus keeping these two METALS down in the basement with the other LOW LIFE SCUM…..seems to make GOOD MAFIA SENSE to me.
JIM WILLIE gets my vote when he describes the current GOVT, FED, BROKERAGE and BANKING SYSTEM as a CRIME SYNDICATE. Now, whether these MORONS are doing it out of STUPIDITY as most MEDICAL DOCTORS treating the body with DRUGS and CHEMO…well then you could say they JUST DON’t KNOW WHAT IN THE HELL THEY ARE DOING. But if they do this out of MALICE and ORCHESTRATION….well then we have a whole different CAN OF WORMS.
Taking a line from the GODFATHER….at some point it time….these BANKERS are going to have to SLEEP WITH THE FISH. Whether that is due to NATURAL CAUSES or by the HAND of UNHAPPY CITIZENS remains to be seen. OPEN and TRANSPARENT MARKETS are not just good for business…they are also good at keeping the HEADS of the ELITE connected to their necks.
There is not total transparency at TOCOM, they merely publish the positions of the trading members. These trading members have individual customers who are just as anonymous as anywhere else, if not more so. If the Japanese (not to mention the British over at LME) have so much market transparency, why was Mitsubishi able to manipulate the copper market (this is a proven fact unlike Butler’s allegations about silver) for so many years? By the way, it actually took COMEX regulators to put an end to it (they recognized what Mitsubishi was doing).
Whether or not Butler is correct about manipulation,
the fact that such manipulation is possible must be
taken into account. Even if the evidence is circumstantial,
the past perfromance of the SEC re other markets
leads one’s gut feeling to the conclusion that
it is not only possible, but highly probable.
But then again, playing these markets is sort of like
betting on horse races. One can assume that a certain
number of races are “fixed”; that’s all part of the game
so you have to factor it in. When you conclude that ALL
the races are fixed, and that the race track security police
are in on the fix, its time to stop betting on the horses.
Once enough track patrons catch on they stop playing and
the track either cleans up its act or shuts down.
Many things are possible but that does not lead to a logical conclusion that such things are also probable. This is not about the SEC but rather the COMEX and CFTC. Here is a question, if the silver manipulation is so obvious, why doesn’t the CFTC simply fudge the data so the concentration ratios aren’t so high and so the commercials aren’t always reported as short? That would be a tiny thing to do if in fact there is all this alleged fraud going on that has cost the longs many billions of dollars.
IMHO, the big boys view silver as an industrial metal, not(presently) a monetary metal. When zinc, copper and nickel tanked, was there manipulation? How about platinum? Well over $2000 an ounce to near par with gold at one point recently. Was that some evil conspiracy to screw holders of the metal? Anybody who has looked at price history for silver has to know its a VERY speculative bet with wild spikes and selloffs going back over 30 years. Jeez, if you want a “guarantee” buy treasuries.
“There may be innuendo and unexplained circumstances but no actual bona fide real evidence.
You wouldn’t recognize real evidence, even if the bone hit you in the head. In the conversations you published between yourself and Ted Butler, he commented on just that. You write long articles, full of hot air, and dance all around the point.
If they are no manipulating silver, why is JPM short such a staggering amount? Please answer in less than one million words. Short and concise, what is the purpose of shorting hundreds of millions of ounces, if not to control the price?
JPM IS SHORT SUCH A “STAGGERING” AMOUNT (IT IS NOT AT ALL STAGGERING FOR THOSE UNLIKE YOU AND BUTLER WHO SUBSTITUTE IMAGINATION FOR ACTUAL STUDY OF THE MARKET) BECAUSE IT IS TAKING THE OTHER SIDE OF CUSTOMERS AS THE LARGEST PM SWAP DEALER BAR NONE. SOME OF THESE CUSTOMERS COULD BE SPECULATORS THEMSELVES (ESSENTIALLY NAKED SHORT) BUT BASED ON THE SIZE OF THE SILVER MARKET AND THE AMOUNT OF SILVER LIKELY TO BE IN PRIVATE STORAGE THE OVERALL JPM SHORT POSITION IS NOT STAGGERING. ONE OF THE BIGGEST MISTAKES BUTLER MAKES IS TO COMPARE GOLD AND SILVER TO OTHER COMMODITIES BUT THAT IS NOT APPROPRIATE SINCE GOLD AND SILVER HAVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE LARGER EXISTING STOCKS TO NEW FLOWS THAN EVERYTHING ELSE. IN OTHER WORDS THE AMOUNT OF NEW PRODUCTION EACH YEAR IS A FRACTION OF TOTAL GOLD AND SILVER STOCKS WHEREAS FOR EVERYTHING ELSE THE STOCKS ARE A FRACTION OF NEW PRODUCTION. QED, NOW F’ OFF.
I started following Ted Butler four or five years ago. I must say he was instrumental in getting me to buy physical silver at $5/oz. I have to thank him since the metal is much higher now and the stock market is much lower.
However, I stopped reading his articles long ago. It is the same old song. Short seller manipulation. Ya da ya da ya ….
He might be right, but I doubt it. If you look at the COT charts and the silver price in a side by side chart, you will see the price of silver goes UP when the TRADERS buy it. It goes down when the TRADERS sell it.
It does just the opposite when the Commercial Dealers buy and sell. This suggests stronger that it is the TRADERS who control the market - not the Commercial Dealers that Butler constantly rails against.
—————————————————————————-
If you want to be successful at silver trading … Butler will not help you.
If you want to be a long, long term investor in silver (5 to 10 years) then listen to Butler and buy the physical metal when it is cheap. In fact, the cheaper the better. Root for $10/oz again so that you can take a big stake. It cannot go to zero. Especially the maple leafs that have $5 legal tender.
Given Obama’s deficits ($10 trillion to come in the next five years) and Bernanke’s money printing operations, severe inflation or deflation is sure to over take over the US economy. Buy some silver (junk coins, maple leafs, eagles) as insurance. At least in the end (if you can protect the coins and/or yourself during the turmoil) you will have some assets. Most American’s will have few or no real assets at the end of the crisis (many have none right now!).
Great points.
Agree
Soros gets his way with the G20
“19. We have agreed to support a general SDR allocation which will inject $250 billion into the world economy and increase global liquidity, and urgent ratification of the Fourth Amendment.”
http://ftalphaville.ft.com/blog/2009/04/02/54411/soros-gets-his-way-with-the-g20/
An index of failing fiat currencies to bail out failing fiat currencies. Take this as the first tranch - the final destination for most of the liquidity being OTC derivatives, so the inflationary consequences may not be seen for some time IMO. Hyperinflation is the ever present risk if confidence in paper money evaporates.
All this is talking about is giving developing nations a $250 billion bailout, it has nothing to do with SDR moving towards any type of reserve currency.
So there is no manipulation. What historians term “external evidence” suggests there might be. For example:
1. There is a “Silver Users Association” and has been for decades whose only purpose would appear to be the suppression of the price of silver. I know of no other similar “association” with regards to any other metal.
2. JPM does maintain an enormous paper short position in the COMEX silver market. For what other reason would a bank, this bank in particular, continue to maintain such a position, other than (a) to interfere in the market on behalf of a client, or (b) engage in profitable manipulation in a specific commodity in a commodity market where the conditions permit profits from that activity?
3. It is now very well accepted that Larry Summers and Robert Rubin directed the activity of a “Plunge Protection Group” to maintain the markets, one of whose core theories was that suppression of the PM markets was necessary to protect the value of the dollar. This group was actually set up in the wake of the 1987 crash, and continued by Summers and Rubin during the Clinton administration, for they subscribed to its activities. Both remain very influential in the Obama administration, which will use PM price suppression as a part of its economic program (and I was an Obama supporter).
I could continue, but…..
1. There are “users” associations for many different metals and other products: gold (World Gold Council), copper (Copper Development Association), steel (Emergency Committee for American Trade), etc., etc., etc., etc. A users association is typically concerned about availability and the Silver Users Association is not unique in this aspect. Indeed, like other users associations, the silver users realize that prices must be high enough to encourage new supply, which is exactly opposite of your baseless accusation.
2. The reason JPMorgan has a huge short position in COMEX silver is because it has a huge long commitment against its clients who are hedging their inventory or holdings. JPMorgan has by far the largest metal swap desk so of course it will be the largest commercial player.
3. “Very well accepted” by whom? Thin foil hat wearers need not apply. If this group is so effective, why did the S&P crash by 60% and why are we in the current mess? You are making totally baseless statements so please save your breath until there is some actual evidence instead of pure assumptions.
‘GOLD AND SILVER HAVE ORDERS OF MAGNITUDE LARGER EXISTING STOCKS TO NEW FLOWS THAN EVERYTHING ELSE” (Silverax)
The figures I’ve seen are about 5 Billion ounces of Gold stocks,
and somewhere around 1 Billion ounces for Silver. Certainly
for Gold, the figure represents probably 90-95% of all the Gold
ever mined in Human history. Silver stocks are a bit less impressive
vis-a-vis new production.
If new Silver production is about 600 million ounces annually,
1 Billion ounces would be 1.67 years supply if all new Silver
production disappeared; which, of course is not likely.
Since annual demand is about 900 million ounces, it means
that the above ground stockpile must be drawn down at
a rate of 300 million ounces per year. The 1 Billion ounce
stockpile then would be exhausted in a bit over 3 years in
filling the gap.
The 1 Billion ounce figure estimated for the Silver stockpile
may be a bit nebulous, but we can do the math for any
reasonable estimated amount. If its really 2 billion, then
we can “fill the gap” for 6 years, if its 3 billion then there’s
enough for 9 years when added to new production.
Whatever the figure, given Chinese and Indian industrial
development, infrastructure development, and Asian
people’s traditional affinity to just holding Silver,
the supply will be short over the next 10 years.
Based on the last several years of investment accumulation the 1.0 billion ounces is probably too low and it is very likely closer to 1.5 to 2.0 billion ounces. Add to that probably 100-200 million ounces at any one time in working inventory of various users (this amount will reliably be hedged on COMEX via commercial short positions). Mind you this figure is in the form of silver bullion and coin — there is substantial more in other forms although these would have to be melted down to add to investment supply. One problem with the drawdown theory (industrial use exceeding mine supply) is that there is also a very substantial amount of recycling especially at higher silver prices that is most likely not fully reflected in the CPM and GFS surveys. Also, of the quoted 900 million ounces of annual demand, only 350-500 million ounces goes into a form that is unlikely to be ever recovered in the future. So in fact the aboveground of ultimately recoverable silver is being added to each year to the tune of 100-200 million ounces. Even if this silver is not primarily in an investment form (though in the last couple of years it has been), there is still a longer term “overhang” from this supply possibly coming back into the market although it will probably take much higher prices in the range of $30-100 (real, not nominal price) to accomplish that. This is plenty of upside without getting bogged down in various manipulation and conspiracy theories or relying on an epic short squeeze. Indeed, we have seen a similar rise already in the past few years in rhodium, uranium and molybdenum to name a few metals. Silver’s day will surely come but it helps to understand the market so that we can properly analyze how and when it will happen instead of constantly saying “the manipulation is about to be busted, silver prices will soon fly!!!”
In general, this whole question of manipulation is irrelevant
to the ultimate price of silver. All paper financial instruments
are, IMO, “manipulated” to one extent or other. Indeed, in the
“good old days” when the U.S, government said the price of
gold was $20.67 or $35.00 or $42.22 an ounce; what is that
but “manipulation”? If the government or other financial forces
are attempting to keep the price under $1,000 via the Comex,
its just more of the same. Ditto for silver. Perhaps they
don’t want to come right out and honestly devalue the dollar.
Nor do they want the market to do it for them via the up pricing
of Gold. In the end, such manipulation, to the extend it might
exist, will fail dismally and will simply serve to extend the
agony of the dollar’s death throes.
Fundamentals will rule in the long run as they always do.
If there is more demand for physical silver than new
production, recycling, and investor dishoarding can supply,
the price will go up regardless of how much “paper silver”
is floated.
@JohnST
You are correct, sir.
Tom:
This thread has gone cold, but still seems to be the appropriate place to bring Avery Goodman’s articles about the ECB/Deutchbank gold transactions into our collective consciousness.
I got onto these pieces, originally posted April 2 and 6, by following up on Sinclair’s link to his article on ‘Why Our Credit Crunch Mirrors the Weimar Hyperinflation from 1919-1923′, posted April 12, which is very much worth the time to read through (http://seekingalpha.com/article/130528-why-our-credit-crunch-mirrors-the-weimar-hyperinflation-from-1919-1923).
Anyway, back to Parts 1 and 2 of his ‘Did the ECB Save COMEX from Gold Default?’ (http://seekingalpha.com/article/129128-did-the-ecb-save-comex-from-gold-default and http://seekingalpha.com/article/129706-did-the-ecb-save-comex-from-gold-default-part-2).
I enjoy your reasoned critiques of Butler’s tiresome tirades, although I too admit that when I first read his stuff back around 2005 it played a part in my decision to reinvest in silver bullion (I was in it big back in the late 1970s, but failed to sell in early 1980).
Goodman’s arguments are in a completely different league to Butler’s.
I would be very interested to see something on ‘Today in Silver’ that addresses them.
Larry